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Home > Puma (Tdci) > Fwd LR Service Bulletin SSM38792 2.4 Puma Engine knock noise
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mse



Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey
The Boy wrote:
mse wrote:
The Boy wrote:
Those sensors have been replaced on mine maybe four or five times plus just about everything else on the fuel system including two pumps! It is still at the dealers at the moment but I will be ringing them this morning to check on progress. Hope fully the smashed window and scratched paint work has been replaced after it was broken into over the weekend while at the dealers. They emailed me yeesterday to say that they will not be held responcible for the kit stolen out of the vehilce but I expected that.


No they are responsbile for it - whilst in their care it is their responsbility and their insurance.

just as it would be with the hire car. i wouldnt stand for that - ask for their insurance company, totally down to them to secure.


Sorry mate but if they have taken reasonable measures to protect the vehicle then they cannot be held liable. They are saying it was in their secure compound with locked gates and steel fence with barbed wire so they have taken suitable precautions. Now I have taken advice form the insurance legal help line and this is right. Now I have a very strong feeling my vehicle was not in the compound but the customer car park. I tried to follow this up and asked for the name of the police officer who attend and when asked why I told them that I wanted to see the report as to the location of the car when they came. The dealers said that by the time the police arrived it had been moved to the vehicle to the workshop where they dusted it for prints. Read into that what you will. I asked for the name off the officer who first attended and they told me they did not know.


I dont know what insurance company advised that - but its not true.

I site 2 examples

1) My mate who owns a indi garage
and
2) When our freelander was broken into at the dealer awaiting a new engine.

Both times it was their liabilty on everything there - doesnt matter how secure or not, their insurance not yours, you just claim on it for the loss (just like you would your own insurance)

Ask for the CCTV records - or just contact the local police station, they will tell you. Mike
Post #4532 6th Nov 2008 5:52pm
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The Boy



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: East Northants
Posts: 1459

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Rimini Red
I am ringing the police tomorrow to get as much info as possible. I will also contact my broker for advice now you have said that. At the end of the day if the insurers don't like the sound of things they will simply counter claim from the dealers. I am told if that is done I will, after time get my £200 excess back and hopefully the £60 excess form my claim form he equipment stolen form my contents insurance.

On a more upbeat note, the dealers had a meeting with some people from land rover about why my lr keeps breaking down over the last year or so and they think they have come up with the cause. They think the pump is over pressurising and when the injectors reach critical pressure it is dumping fuel in leading to semi-hydrolock. Just waiting for parts to be delivered.

Boy
Post #4533 6th Nov 2008 6:12pm
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CapeLandy



Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 558

South Africa 
amazing
As an aside...

It amases me that all LR Dealers, no matter where in the world, all seem to be made from the same mould, filled with a lot of brown stuff and slime.
Big Cry Puma 110 - gone
Series III 1973 - going strong
Post #4534 6th Nov 2008 6:21pm
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Bosun



Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Great Berry
Posts: 141

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green
A comment from "one_iota" has prompted me to inform you guys of my experience regarding loss of power and pressure sensor failure. Albeit not on the 2.4TDCi common rail diesel, but a common rail diesel none the less, which I assume all use similar engine software logic.
If the rail pressure sensor fails, the engine goes into a "limp home mode", which derates the engine (dumps fuel), resulting in loss of power. Because the injection system uses a constant displacement pump, the excess fuel has to go somewhere, and that's back to tank via the return fuel line. This fuel is now very hot and there's a lot of it. If the return line directs the fuel onto the tank walls or base it can melt a hole quite quickly in a polyethylene tank if not rectified straight away. So it's probably not a good idea to contiue driving with loss of power caused by a faulty pressure sensor.
Bosun.
Post #4543 7th Nov 2008 7:33am
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mse



Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey
Bosun wrote:
A comment from "one_iota" has prompted me to inform you guys of my experience regarding loss of power and pressure sensor failure. Albeit not on the 2.4TDCi common rail diesel, but a common rail diesel none the less, which I assume all use similar engine software logic.
If the rail pressure sensor fails, the engine goes into a "limp home mode", which derates the engine (dumps fuel), resulting in loss of power. Because the injection system uses a constant displacement pump, the excess fuel has to go somewhere, and that's back to tank via the return fuel line. This fuel is now very hot and there's a lot of it. If the return line directs the fuel onto the tank walls or base it can melt a hole quite quickly in a polyethylene tank if not rectified straight away. So it's probably not a good idea to contiue driving with loss of power caused by a faulty pressure sensor.
Bosun.


I assume the fuel cooler would deal with that though? Mike
Post #4552 7th Nov 2008 5:19pm
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Bosun



Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Great Berry
Posts: 141

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green
Not sure, remember this is return fuel. Normally "excess" fuel would return to the tank via this route. I assume the cooler is for fuel going to the engine and not from it.
Post #4590 10th Nov 2008 7:21am
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one_iota



Member Since: 06 May 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 99

Australia 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
Bosun wrote:
Not sure, remember this is return fuel. Normally "excess" fuel would return to the tank via this route. I assume the cooler is for fuel going to the engine and not from it.


According to the manual the cooler is on the return line to the tank and not on the supply side. Mahn
'08 Defender 110
ex '95 Disco 300 Tdi
www.aulro.com
Post #4594 10th Nov 2008 9:43am
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mse



Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey
This is correct. The cooler has to be on the return side to deal with arm fuel.

Its on the passenger side around the bulkhead on the chassis rail Mike
Post #4605 10th Nov 2008 3:44pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4658

Ireland 
Regarding the hot excess fuel issue returning to the tank.Could this possibly exit the tank through the breather pipe?I've recently extended mine up to the bulk head.The engine bay would not be the best place for hot fuel to be exiting the system!
Post #4608 10th Nov 2008 7:41pm
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felos



Member Since: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Athens
Posts: 12

Greece 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Epsom Green
Possible solutions?
Yesterday I've been to the dealer for my normal servicing,there were two Pumas there waiting for new engines due to this problem.What crossed my mind was the possibility this happening to me after the guarandee has expired and me being in the veeery sad position to pay for a new engine.
So trying to figure out some possible solutions to this problem I came out with the following:
a)Dry the engine out of oil ,work it for some time and burn it,refill with old oil and claim for a new one (rather extreme solution).
b)Install a webasto or other heater and use it every cold morning to heat the engine and therefore lower the viscosity of oil before startup .
c)Put some good additive into the oil (SLICK,CERAMIZERetc.)so friction or heat during startup will not cause so much damage.
Lets talk about this subject because I believe that many of us we will be in this very costly situation in the very near future.

A very alarmed George NOT A TRANSIT
Post #9420 4th Apr 2009 11:09am
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4658

Ireland 
I would think that if the vehicle was serviced as laid down in the handbook (especially by a maindealer) and there has been a history of engines giving bother with various faults caused by sensors and ECU related issues if a new engine was needed out of the warranty period I would think that provision has been made for this. I know LR might fight this but if there is a proven trail of substandard engines I would fight my case. If it went to court it would not be difficult to prove that a substantial number of units needed replacing. There is lots of stuff in print issued by LR as posted here to back up your case.I would also suggest that as LR gain more experience with this unit any problems that they find will be attended to in recalls to the dealer. It is not in LR's interest to have large numbers of engines packing up at the one time. In these times they want to sell vehicles so I do not think the scenario will arise. Enjoy your vehicle, and if the problem arises face it then. You could have the most perfect vehicle ever made yet write it off in an accident caused by someone else. Anyway if it's a bad design persay no doubt LR are chasing Ford for cost.
We all know that Ford dictated to LR to install this unit but if LR had had an engine of there own in development and near to completion surely Ford would have let them install it? They extra sales won by Ford by putting this unit in Defenders must be pretty small compared to the number of units installed in Transits. I am aware that LR did modifications to suit Defender applications which cost money. If a unit of their own was ready or nearly ready it would have been cheaper to use this. If the Td5 could have been readily modified to suit regulations this would have been ready to install. At the end of the day LR must have been fairly happy with the Puma to go down that route.
We all love basic no nonsense designs but bureaucratic regulators have done away with this. I may be proven wrong down the line and would welcome further comment.
My Puma is a family car and treated accordingly. Most others around here are farm vehicles and are highly thought of by their owners. One Transit owner was giving it it's first oil change at 36.000 miles and it is worked hard. So regular servicing with the book stamped should keep you right. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #9435 4th Apr 2009 9:03pm
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alantd



Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1513

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green
Wise words One that started out as a 2.4 TDCi 110 XS
+ New Defender 110 First Edition
Post #9439 4th Apr 2009 10:33pm
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Femund



Member Since: 21 Apr 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 12

Norway 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Re: Possible solutions?
felos wrote:
b)Install a webasto or other heater and use it every cold morning to heat the engine and therefore lower the viscosity of oil before startup .

Webasto is standard equipment on Defenders in Norway. I use mine every morning during the winter. It's running for half an hour before I start the engine. I've had problems with fuel rail twice........... Sad Both times when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear.
But, after the last fuel rail installation, the engine sounds much more 'smooth'. 08MY Defender 2.4 SE
Post #9465 6th Apr 2009 7:53am
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dullbird



Member Since: 25 Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 87

Australia 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Tonga Green
The Boy wrote:
I am ringing the police tomorrow to get as much info as possible. I will also contact my broker for advice now you have said that. At the end of the day if the insurers don't like the sound of things they will simply counter claim from the dealers. I am told if that is done I will, after time get my £200 excess back and hopefully the £60 excess form my claim form he equipment stolen form my contents insurance.

Quote:
On a more upbeat note, the dealers had a meeting with some people from land rover about why my lr keeps breaking down over the last year or so and they think they have come up with the cause. They think the pump is over pressurising and when the injectors reach critical pressure it is dumping fuel in leading to semi-hydrolock. Just waiting for parts to be delivered.

Boy


Very interesting as our car still has the engine rattle that land rover australia have been chasing for the last 18months just like one iota's except he as only had it once ir twice we have also had ours go into limp mode 3 times and on occasions the rattle has happened twice not once with in the 500 meter distance from starting up.

Landrover have just informed me that it was due to a blocked filter which i'm pretty sure when I cut it open that it wasn't blocked Wink and i'm sure the second new filter that went on wasn't blocked either as the rattle never went away..

Can you let me know how you get on The Boy as at least you have people getting together and talking about yours we have to do our own research for the dealers over here YOU KNOW REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS!!!!
Post #10758 12th May 2009 12:43pm
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Bogblaster



Member Since: 04 Jun 2007
Location: Glawstershire
Posts: 119

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Adventure Corris Grey
Morning all

I dont have a knock at startup, but at 1800 rpm in every gear there is a knocking, it is definitely engine and not drivetrain, as it does it at same RPM in every gear. It is also bloody loud and not a slight engine knock, even the wife commented on it..........

I have also checked UJ's, props and hand brake housing to make sure, but nothing wrong there!

Any one else experienced this problem?

Cheers

BB 2019 MY Disco 5 HSE Lux
Audi A4 Avant 3.0L TDI Quattro - WOW
2016 90 Adventure
Post #12683 6th Jul 2009 10:01am
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