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defender4

Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: South East London
Posts: 411

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

To get back to the original issue I think we can divide the incident into two distinct parts.

An attack using a car to run down pedestrians is almost impossible to prevent. Widespread media attention creates copycat acts, which this was, but control of the media is also impossible in this day and age. Apart from the tragedy of so many deaths and injuries this will cause lasting economic and reputational damage to London and the nation.

The attack directed at the Palace of Westminster, however, was preventable. The unarmed policemen on those gates are essentially directing traffic and controlling pedestrians on the pavement to allow access through the gates. This is, and has been, a known weak point. When approached from the east it is also the least protected by armed police on the street who tend to be concentrated to the stretch of the Embankment running west from this point towards the MI5 building. It is true that the attacker was shot by an armed policeman but that officer was there not to protect the site but just happened to be present because he was a bodyguard for the defence minister. That the attack was not far worse was a matter of mere happenstance.

This was nothing less than a shambles but, as is so often the case, it is deliberately portrayed as something entirely different by the government and most commentators (there are many examples but the portrayal of the retreat from Dunkirk in WW2 as a crowning achievement is one that springs to mind).

25th Mar 2017 7:34am

David T

Member Since: 01 Sep 2016
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 190

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black

I don't need to be told that Islamic terrorists do not represent the entire Muslim population any more than I need to be told that Anders Brevik does'nt represent Norwegians or that Adam Lanza does'nt represent the inhabitants of Sandy Hook. I've managed to figure that out by myself, thanks.
However, only a fool would deny that the ideology of an often oppressive religion and the failure to integrate of huge Muslim communities in cities across the globe has a great deal to do with the terrorism. Until moderate Islam accepts that the problem is of their own making and that only they have the obligation to stop it at source, nothing will change. Blaming the west is wearing thin. The USMC or the Paras are in no way to blame for the Sunni suicide bomber vapourizing 50 Shi'ites. Blair and Bush are in no way to blame for 4 murders in Westminster the other day. These are acts carried out in the name of radical Islam. The Islamic world is in desperate need of a 21st century relevant, pragmatic and charismatic figurehead who can unite them, change perceptions on all sides and bring peace. Will that ever happen? I doubt it.
In the mean time, give a gun to any copper who'd like one, in order to facilitate instant martyrdom to any terrorist that wants it.

25th Mar 2017 9:13am

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6308

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

I have an idea. Possibly only God ha thought of this previously (oops sorry in this day and age mentioning God or anything relating to Christianity is probably not pc).

Perhaps all Muslims should be based in their home land and like wise Jews, French, Chinese etc and put a load of water between them to keep them separated. It's a bit like certain chemicals, safe in isolation but when mixed disaster.

The only thing more dangerous than an isis fanatic is a do gooder.

Bring back the excitement of going on holiday to foreign countries to experience a different culture - I you dare.

Just my thoughts of course. Am I still allowed to have thoughts in this sanitised world?

25th Mar 2017 10:07am

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20487

"The only thing more dangerous than an isis fanatic is a do gooder. "

Tiny Tim Farron.

No Guts, No Glory.
ðŸ‡¬ðŸ‡§ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó ´ó ¿ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡ºðŸ‡¸â›½ï¸ðŸ›¢ï¸âš™ï¸ðŸ§°ðŸ’ª

25th Mar 2017 10:57am

Birdy

Member Since: 07 Oct 2011
Location: CÃ´te d'Azur
Posts: 869

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

At least some good has come out of all this:

Lots of overtime for police and security personnel, some lucky company will get an order for a few thousand more CCTV cameras, another will supply more body-worn cameras, the Terrorism Act will be extended so anybody in uniform can stop/search/arrest anybody, anytime…

Seriously, terrorism is to me violent intimidation by an organised group for a defined political aim (IRA - unification of Ireland; EOKA - end of British rule in Cyprus; even ISIS must have some goal, if only to take over from Saudi Arabia). It is NOT the random act of a nutter - of any religious persuasion - with a chip on his shoulder.

Peter

25th Mar 2017 11:57am

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3786

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

custom90steve wrote:
"The only thing more dangerous than an isis fanatic is a do gooder. "

Tiny Tim Farron.

David T & Steve, both spot on.
Pickles.

25th Mar 2017 8:15pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6308

ChrisWoods wrote:

Easy on paper. Not so easy in real life, especially if someone ends up dead. A friend of mine was attacked in a public place by three men. He layed them out and was done for assault.

You see. The jury was probably made up of 'do gooders'. They're a dangerous species I tell you.

25th Mar 2017 8:22pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20487

Thing is, they aren't do gooder enough to take the refugees and terrorists etc into their own homes.
Surely they have a room spare?

Bit like the Greenlane bobble hat brigade, don't want us there.
Then they don't use the lanes, get overgrown and then no one can use them including themselves.

Then turn around and say, whoops, we made a mistake it's other people's problems to solve now. No Guts, No Glory.
ðŸ‡¬ðŸ‡§ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó ´ó ¿ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡ºðŸ‡¸â›½ï¸ðŸ›¢ï¸âš™ï¸ðŸ§°ðŸ’ª

Last edited by custom90 on 25th Mar 2017 8:38pm. Edited 1 time in total

25th Mar 2017 8:32pm

mk1collector

Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

Caterham wrote:

Perhaps all Muslims should be based in their home land and like wise Jews, French, Chinese ?

You seem to be mixing religions and country of origin, the U.K. Is the homeland of many Muslims and Jews Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html

25th Mar 2017 8:37pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6308

True but you get th idea

Have a look round the world and see how Christians are persecuted.

This integration business doesn't work too well so forgive if I don't think having all these mosques dotted around the country is a great idea.

Oh and just for a laugh, well it makes me shake my head at least..... a wee young girl whom I'm told by a very reliable source is a little angel (she's about 8 years old / white / British) was called a terrorist by her class mate who's a Muslim. I just wonder for a moment how that might have panned out if it were the other way round.

25th Mar 2017 9:17pm

Riverboy

Member Since: 16 May 2016
Location: French sector, Earth
Posts: 1288

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

It works perfectly well for most people, its just the extremists on both sides that dont like it.

25th Mar 2017 9:20pm

integrale

Member Since: 29 Oct 2015
Location: Auckland
Posts: 77

Well said, Riverboy. A voice of reason.

26th Mar 2017 1:21am

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3786

Riverboy wrote:
It works perfectly well for most people, its just the extremists on both sides that dont like it.

It would be good if that's all there was to it, but unfortunately it's not quite as simple as that.
If We go to live in a predominantly Muslim Country, & tried to promote/live/dress/promote our religion/way of life in their Country, we would not be allowed to do it for long, before we were apprehended/arrested,....or worse.
Problem is, and this is where the problem is, these people do come to the U.K, or in my case, to Aussie, and they do want to do exactly what they do in their own country, in ours,...and that is unacceptable to me.
If We move to their Country, we are expected to live as they do, and i have no problem with that at all, as long as the same is the case if they wish to live in our Country.
Pickles.

Last edited by Pickles on 26th Mar 2017 3:03am. Edited 1 time in total

26th Mar 2017 2:58am

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3786

Riverboy wrote:
It works perfectly well for most people, its just the extremists on both sides that dont like it.

Double Post...deleted!

26th Mar 2017 2:59am

Riverboy

Member Since: 16 May 2016
Location: French sector, Earth
Posts: 1288

And the first European settlers into Australia, America, Africa etc etc embraced the native peoples cultures of course.

Its so hypocritical to say that they should embrace ours when we have imposed our way off life on large parts of the world mostly in a very brutal and violent way. I imagine that was pretty unacceptable to them also.

Anyway, returning to the Westminster attacker. They now say that he acted alone. It was interesting to hear people that knew him being interview on TV. Nice guy as a kid, became isolated from friends and community, hated his skin colour because of the way he was treated by people. Became a loner, became violent. Became radicalised, Became a killer.

Segregation and discrimination creates the problem, it doesnt solve it.

26th Mar 2017 7:43am

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