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| Anderzander Member Since: 08 Feb 2011 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1000  
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Thanks Yobbie
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9th Feb 2011 8:40pm |
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| Alive Tuning Member Since: 01 Mar 2010 Location: Louth Posts: 610
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I've only just come back to the forum, as I've been flat out this week. I was horrified to see peoples reactions, Including Ian, and his very impressive CV of course, so thought I'd better clarify my thoughts on what was posted earlier.
This particular thread is about engine 'Tuning', and so that is what we all should be talking about on here. 
Plug in tuning boxes will produce more power, but they do this by fooling the engine management, which is never a good thing. I commented about how a properly made remap will work far better, and give significant benefits over a plug in device. The emphasis being on properly, as you can easily make a remap that is very basic (eg. Increase fuel pressure and/or injection duration) and works like a plug in box. There are remaps, and there are remaps, and this is what I'm trying to get across. There are suprisingly few people within the UK land rover aftermarket, who can actually make a good quality remap for the Puma engine. Some are of course sponsors of this forum, and there are a few that are'nt. There are probably many specialist Ford tuning companies within the UK that could probably do this very well too, but let's focus on the land rover aftermarket. There are many 'tuning' companies out there, however reputable they may be, that either do not have the expertise to understand how these engine management systems work, or don't know what to do with the maps to make them better. These companies generally have 'slave' tools, and buy in their map files from the remap companies who have 'master' units, such as BAS, Jeremy Fearn, or Alive, for example. Some 'tuners' have master units, and a huge database of 'open' (so they can be used again and again) map files for various vehicles, which would have still been bought in (for a lot of money!) from the major players in remap tuning. Now here's the crunch bit... 'T1G UP' wrote "yes, go to bell auto services or IRB for proper remap.", and so I responded with what I assumed was common knowledge on these forums, that Ian gets his map files off Pete, and simply sells them on. BAS has many dealer/distributors throughout the UK, who sell his remaps. These dealers sell this service in addition to their main speciality. To give a couple of examples, Allisport being one, IRB being another. These companies are very good at what they do, and have excellent reputations for their products and services. However, neither of them are actually tuning companies, and that is the entire basis on my reply, as in actual fact they are a slave dealer for a tuning company (hence why I refered as a pretender). Ian, It's my round next time. Come and see me at Driffield.  |
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10th Feb 2011 3:29pm |
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| fekete Member Since: 24 Dec 2008 Location: Here on the other end of the computer Posts: 3626 
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Well you can't say better than that Gary,
Will be in touch Monday for my Map NEVER TAKE LIFE SERIOUSLY. NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE ANYWAY |
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10th Feb 2011 4:12pm |
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| party monkey Member Since: 31 Dec 2010 Location: Oxon. Posts: 1311  
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Gary (Alive Tuning) - from a numpty who knows the square root of sod all about these things.... thankyou for the very clear explanation of custom remaps vs off the shelf maps vs plug in boxes in your last post.
I'm not remotely interested in how we got to it but I'm bl**dy glad we did as I have 'seen the light' so to speak.
Have only owned my Td5 for a couple of months but have been like a dog with two dicks wanting to do anything and everything to it..... Without this post and indeed this forum as a whole, I'd have probably right royally shagged it up. Remap is on the shopping list.... Fathers day pressie methinks ! - kids better get saving ! Hope all are friends again Cheers, Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless. |
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10th Feb 2011 4:42pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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So eloquently put old man  Watch out though, you might find K9F on your tail  |
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10th Feb 2011 5:48pm |
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| Augusto Member Since: 01 Feb 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 35  
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Thanks lorry. I wonder what to say about my mapping needs. I am ok with current performace, i just want 30 seconds afterburner to get and keep momentum while climbing on sand. That all my mapping needs. Thanks |
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12th Feb 2011 8:47pm |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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Augusto, why do you need a map to do that? There is enough power and torque to do it anyway?
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12th Feb 2011 8:53pm |
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| Augusto Member Since: 01 Feb 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 35
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My experience with my 300tdi 1998 Discovery in chilean desert. Couple of times I couldnt got top of sand dunes cos lack of momentum. I've never tried with defender yet. It has just 2000 km on german roads. Thanks |
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12th Feb 2011 9:06pm |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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Suggest you try the defender first before you look at remaps. I tend to use 3rd gear low box and that's never failed on dunes. smaller dunes I just stay in high box and get my foot down
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12th Feb 2011 9:09pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5786 
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When out in the dunes last year you could easily tell who had remaps and who didn't.
The ones who did where staying in high box, and also found that less of a run up was required. Those that did not have remaps were in low box, running out of revs by the top, and needing more of a run up, that then caused problems as it some times created a bounce that absorbs the power. For me remap worked very well in the dunes, and the others were having test drives of the remapped vehicles. Andy |
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13th Feb 2011 8:53am |
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| Augusto Member Since: 01 Feb 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 35
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Thats why I've found interensting switchable or selectable tuning. Like terrain response. For example:
Standard Afterburner 30 seconds High altitud above 4000 over sea level Eco, low consumption for conecting etages Thanks |
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13th Feb 2011 12:02pm |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101 
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fair enough, i suppose IRB have been getting good press recently what with doing lot of work in the mags etc. And obviously it touched a little nerve of yours Gary. Again i understand as i am in business and i have competitors aswell. Most "remaps" are generic...the ones you send down the phone are generic, with options no doubt. And as you know that suits 99% of the market. What annoys me is the cost of generic remaps, they are regurgitated many times at £300-600 a pop. and these switching boxes are another £300 or so, money for old rope after the developement costs are covered. Thats the reason i have used IRB in the past as his remaps are cheaper, there from a good source and have back up. He also has a great workshop facility and comes to you if you ask nicely
I understand you have a good product and tuning products available and a good fan base here and elsewhere. Good luck with it. |
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13th Feb 2011 2:15pm |
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| Alive Tuning Member Since: 01 Mar 2010 Location: Louth Posts: 610
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I have tuned thousands of land rovers since I started remapping them in 2005, and pretty much every one of them has been custom made. I can read a map from a car I 've tuned, and import it into my map editing software, where it will find a 100% match. That being a version (final version) in the project file for that particular customer! I've done this when people have bought a car that I'd mapped years ago, and has changed hands since, and the new owner wants to know more about their cars spec. I used to only note the customer name and VRM, but now I note the VIN as well.
Even the tuning I do for my dealers (down the phone line as you say) is bespoke. Having said that, the work I do for franchised dealerships is quite conservative so as to guarantee utmost reliability, and an imporvement in mpg, as they are often sold on the basis of improved economy, and fitted to brand new vehicles. These maps are generally very similar, with nothing to radical changed between them. There are so many variations in software too, so this is another reason why I have to individually tune each file. I know of many people who will use one software version to flash onto any Puma, as you can, and it will work. Often is the case, that the software they used has been updated since, so can easily roll an up to date car, back to a previous sw version! Bespoke remapping is something I do routinely, and have done from the start. It's more work for sure, but I know that the characteristics will match the customers requirements, his vehicle spec, mileage/condition etc in every case.  Regarding generic remaps, maybe this is something I could offer as a cheaper option, so you could get the choice of a full on bespoke remap (the norm at the moment), or an off the peg generic tune that is safe for most peoples requirements (much like the Superchips or Autologic tunes)? I think even then, I would still be tempted to do some slight tweaks of the base file, just so I know the customer will not have any issues in future. Theirs not much in the way of effort required for me to do this, it just takes longer.
One thing is for sure, and that is that every car/engine will respond differently to tuning. An example of this is; A few years ago, I had two 2005 Td5 Defender 110 CSW's come over from Norway, for a remap tune and ITG filter. Both had similar mileage (kms), were properly serviced, and had the same fuel in their tanks. Diagnostically, they were in tip top condition, with everything running exactly as it should. I did the first one, and after a few tweaks, it was spot on, and running cleanly. I applied that same file to the other 110, and it smoked like a bad-un! The difference between the two car's map files when I'd finished was quite significant, but performance was similar in the end. I don't like car's I've tuned, wearing my stickers, to smoke, as it makes them look like clapped out old bangers, and makes me look crap! That's why I take my time, and give the attention necessary to ensure every car I tune, runs right. My products and remap tuning may not be the cheapest available, but you can be sure that you are getting good honest value for money when you buy anything from me. The years of development, massive cost of tuning equipment, and of course my business overheads, all go to justify my fees. Those selling quick and simple generic maps on the other hand (often for more money than I sell for!) are having a laugh. 
Best Regards, Gary. |
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13th Feb 2011 8:11pm |
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232 
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Like this bunch that probabally have day jobs in a totally different line of work than tuning lol http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=landrov...m270.l1313 Pete |
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13th Feb 2011 8:41pm |
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