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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013  
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And the nights close in...
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31st Aug 2023 6:56pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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31st Aug 2023 6:56pm |
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| scy73 Member Since: 14 Sep 2023 Location: Scotland Posts: 2
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Hello everyone,
Apologies for bringing my rusty, trusty old (2007) Transit camper van into your discussion, but it is much loved by us, and we really want to extend its life. I've been cutting out sills, and other bits ready for welding, and want to avoid this again in the future. I've been back and forth considering how best to protect the underside before I ran into this forum. Google had been screaming out this forum, but I'd been keeping my focus on vans mostly until a chance click, and that is when I fell down this 80 odd page glorious rabbit-hole. I've basically read it all and been transfixed with Zagato et al transformations of these vehicles. The result, I'm drowning in information, but I'd like to ask a few questions if I may, to get my direction straight? 1. I have a sill problem, mostly, the original Ford underseal appears largely good underneath, but, do I need to remove it all to apply ACF-50 and 4941. I've removed some around the affected areas, but didn't have to travel far to find shiny steel and well bonded material. I will of course if I have to but if I can save some time by focussing on protection and not specifically the aesthetics that would make my life so much easier. I work away a lot for extended periods, so time at home with the family is precious. 2. Reading the horror stories about RC900 on the lungs, I'd like to use something else that has served me well with an old Ducato Camper for years with appropriate prep and top coat, Vactan, would there be any major issues using this if I weren't concerned with a smooth finish?. Or something quite effective but not so toxic. I don't expect to get many, many years out of our camper so I perhaps I can pull back on the RC900? Despite my desire to do this well protected with PPE, I am by nature accident-prone, and a probable candidate for knocking a mask off, or similar accident. 3. What would you say was the best method for ACF-50 application, spray gun, brush and wipe, or a combination? There is a bewildering array of opinions across all the different forums about corrosion, but the methods documented in this thread seem to be the right course to me. P.S. I have some schutz for sale 
I'd be happy of course to share my experience and journey, including photos but I'd be hesitant to do so in this thread as my vehicle is outside this forum's scope. Thanks for any assistance, Steph. |
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14th Sep 2023 11:09pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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Hi Steph.
You can use 4941 over old underseal but you should put a lighter wax on first like 1000 or 3125 if they are selling it again. Putting on ACF-50 over old underseal is a waste and can actually strip it off! I have never used Vatcan. You can brush on ACF-50 as an alternative. Have fun and thanks for the comments...  |
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15th Sep 2023 7:38am |
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| scy73 Member Since: 14 Sep 2023 Location: Scotland Posts: 2
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Thank you, that helps a lot.
Steph. |
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16th Sep 2023 11:22am |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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This was very nice all the way from Tyneside... lowered and kept in top condition. Pleasure to meet you Alyn.
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16th Sep 2023 11:45am |
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| Scotm Member Since: 28 Feb 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 666  
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Finally got round to a job I have been meaning to do for a couple of years - removed sill covers and rear triangles so I could rub down inner sills to deal with bubbling paint. Using rattle cans I painted to match body colour then applied helitape with double layer where the door seals rub. Rejel RC800 and Dinitrol 1000/4941 on all the hidden bits. Stainless sill brackets and fixings used to put back together.
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17th Sep 2023 7:43am |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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Nice example, local vehicle...
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22nd Sep 2023 12:55pm |
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| PupArt Member Since: 25 Sep 2023 Location: West Midlands Posts: 3
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Hi Zagato, I have just signed up, looking for someone who loves to do a beautiful underseal job. I am in the West Mids for my sins, seeing the Buzzweld in Worcester I feel a bit unsure.
I have spine issues so really dissapointed I couldn't do it kyself but Id not know which prts need removing or to watch out for. I did like the buzzweld aspect of theor service that uses the high temp 155° steam cleaner, does that remive all the rust?? Any advice really would like to get this done to a high standard. I cinsidered taking it to a Dinitrol centre but closest to me is in Oxford. Id like a reasonable length of time protection. But someone who spends time on prep is important to me. Any ideas? p.s. This would be for my Mk 2 Rav4 so the pwtrol tank amd fuel filler pipe are also points that need to be addressed. It has been treated before around 3 years ago. Many thanks for any suggestions. Apologies for encroaching on this awesome defender site. I love the older models. Really need to protect my car and want to not worry about the rust. Many thanks. |
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25th Sep 2023 8:30pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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Hi Pupart, always thought the Rav 4 Mk2 was a good looking motor.
To answer your question steam cleaning is designed to clean not remove rust. You have to physically get in by hand to remove rust, hopefully with machinery where possible and you have good access. As you say this is where the importance of the work is and what takes the time. Preparation and treating the rust is the most important methodical job, spraying is the easy bit. All my vehicles are booked in for their own week slot. Not only does this give me ample time to prep the metal it also allows plenty of time for the metal to dry out. Despite what products say on the tin, they don't disperse moisture, of course not, water soaks into metal, especially weld points inside box sections! Never take your car to anyone who will do it in a day obviously. I cannot comment on other businesses but at least you have the right product in Dinitrol. This wave of heavy marketing of Lanoguard is fooling so many people. I find it astounding that people are taken in by it. They may not realise it's basically a runny glue but it doesn,t take long to Google the make up of the product. How people think spraying this coating on existing rust will stop it is unbelievable. Now after a few years of heavy marketing they are coming half clean and saying that the product doesn,t attack the rust chemically but stops it only due to the fact it stops oxygen getting to the rust. Well of course sadly if only it were that easy. There is no magical cure, you have to spend time getting the rust off first, use something like an acid rust convertor, or ACF-50 etc first then put your top coats on. With Lanoguard all you are doing is coating everything in glue. |
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26th Sep 2023 6:48am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1049  
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I believe the linoguard / fluid film products are most effective when applied prior to any rust and serve to preserve a good vehicle relatively cheaply, without too much effort and fairly environmentally friendly.
To get a rust free car, you buy a car that is rust free and then preserve it. To get a rusted car free of rust is a whole different story and unless you start changing steel is ever just going to be a process of delaying the inevitable with mixed success. |
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26th Sep 2023 7:31am |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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Yes quite right. Any barrier applied to new metal which has no rust will prevent rust to a certain extent depending on what you use. There are far better alternatives to Lanoguard however which is just a glue and can lift and bubble over time and just leaves a messy compromised coating trapping in moisture and makes it harder to work on that area in future. I am getting more and more disgruntled clients coming in with this blimmen mess! Ordinary old oil would be a better alternative or Linseed oil which is used quite a bit in Canada for instance if you want something environmentally friendly. Personally I recommend Dinitrol clearcote Corroheat. Excellent stuff for all the reasons I have banged on about it over this long thread.
The aspect I don,t like about Lanoguard mainly is the way it's marketed showing before and after pictures of a rusty underside and a treated after picture with big words 'STOPS RUST' plastered over the images! Lanoguard products have been marketed for years for various applications. One of them for instance is to protect props as an anti foul. Well it's pretty useless at that also but was the the latest/greatest thing about 10-15 years ago. You don,t see it anymore! If you can make a product and sell it to as many markets as you can, you probably will. Similar to Raptor products, Buzzweld etc if you can adapt an existing product it to fit the huge potential of the DIY rust prevention market then you have created an incredible money stream... until the next magical cure is created by someone! |
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26th Sep 2023 8:16am |
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| PupArt Member Since: 25 Sep 2023 Location: West Midlands Posts: 3
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Thank you for your reply, I love that you like my car!! It's the 2 door short wheel base, it is cute and zippy as I drive anyway. I bomb around, in my mind Im a formula 1 old Rav 4 race driver.
How do I contact you, do you have a website with an outline of your process. Looks like you have been doing these jobs for a long time. Love that you get all that rust off I'd find that satisfying to do if I could but its a lot of work. I'm curious about the ACF 50 how did you come to start using that and your finds, I thought it was for motorbikes and a bit of a reapplication thing. I had read about it a bit. Where are you? Before I come to you what should I do for this winter? Would old engine oil, or new even, spray on? Would it layer? If you would be kind enough to share that process for a temporary measure. I am dreading a hard winter. With thanks |
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26th Sep 2023 10:48am |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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The answers are repeated in this thread BUT I appreciate it's a lot to wade through. It very time consuming writing it all out and quite a bit of advice will be particular to your vehicle. It's easier for me to help you if you contact me and I can talk you through it all.
CCalvert@CCAutomotive.co.uk Last edited by Zagato on 27th Sep 2023 8:48pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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26th Sep 2023 11:48am |
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