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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17312

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
lord-haggis wrote:
Is there anyway of identifying the TATA made axles of the friction welded variety?


Assuming that axles were produced by TATA in India (noting DSC-off's views) then I think it is likely that all India-sourced axles were MIG welded, but this is speculation on my part. I can't see that a friction-welded production line would have been set up and then taken out of use, it seems more likely that they were always MIG welded.

If anyone has bought a brand new axle case from Landrover recently, the country of origin should have been identified on the packaging.
Post #968961 26th Oct 2022 11:18am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
DSC-off wrote:
I think the India made axles are a red herring in the story. Everything else is pretty accurate.


If you have more on why that is, can you share it please?
Post #968963 26th Oct 2022 11:45am
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1392

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
It's not possible to comment further.

Packaging label for a front axle case,

Post #968964 26th Oct 2022 12:14pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17312

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
That's interesting, thank you. How recent is that axle case?

I suppose it is just possible that when the classic Defender went out of production manufacture returned to a UK supplier, that is assuming manufacture has continued of course.

Is there any chance of a photo of the welds on the axle that was in that packaging?

The LR engineer with whom Payney1000 spoke may have been mistaken about the Indian production business, but he may have been told that this was the case. It may be that manufacture was simply outsourced/transferred to a cheaper UK supplier.

All interesting stuff, it all helps build up a picture, and it isn't a pretty one.
Post #968971 26th Oct 2022 1:58pm
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1392

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
The label picture was taken from the ebay listing, link below.
The date on the label is 2018, so it was packed in 2018 or later. That's no definite indication of when it was actually made.
The end flanges are clearly MIG welded,




https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165553734575?va...1bEALw_wcB
Post #968976 26th Oct 2022 2:40pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17312

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Thank you, as you say clearly MIG welded.

I wonder how you can distinguish a bad MIG welded axle from a good one...
Post #968978 26th Oct 2022 3:04pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3399

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
Quote:
I wonder how you can distinguish a bad MIG welded axle from a good one...

You cannot really distinguish from "bad" to "not bad enough" Big Cry FW is always superior.

Cheaper (excluding shipping and duty/vat) and good one here:
http://www.serwis-lr.pl/pl/p/Obudowa-mostu...FENDER/731 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #968979 26th Oct 2022 3:12pm
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2617

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
I am sure that Gerry and JLR really care and have you best interests at heart.

I am sure that there is a good replacement here somewhere


Click image to enlarge


Failing that expect a £50 voucher towards a new Defender in the post... Whistle
Post #968982 26th Oct 2022 4:00pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17312

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Ironically since those all appear to be military vehicles probably every single one has a reinforced axle case which is many times stronger than the ones we've been discussing. Big Cry
Post #969007 26th Oct 2022 6:53pm
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Birdy



Member Since: 07 Oct 2011
Location: Côte d'Azur
Posts: 863

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
I crawled under my truck today and my 2011 Chassis No BA4084XX - within the “suspect” range - has a quite substantial single weld each side, rather than the double row seen on some axles.

It was recalled for the “emergency” supporting brackets to be fitted by the dealer (the gear lever recall was also carried out by the dealer, but they ended up in addition changing the complete clutch - springs had broken - and transfer box shaft and flange because "the splines had flattened off") but I’ve only realised the full axle background through this thread.

I’m not particularly worried, and I’m confident that the brackets are sturdy enough for the job they’re intended to do...

But I really do wonder what JLR would do if ever the weld(s) do give way, this being a fault known from the start. Compare the action of Morgan, on discovering a problem with the brakes on the model succeeding the “classic” Mog with ladder chassis frame, the owner of every single car was contacted to be advised not to drive the vehicle until it had been taken back to the dealer for rectification (p....d off some who had just bought a brand new car, of course!).

Peter
Post #969019 26th Oct 2022 7:56pm
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HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 729

Philippines 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
I believe my front axle (2011 D110) is affected, presuming I referenced the VIN correctly.

Welds seem to be holding (I have now jinxed myself) and am planning to install the brackets when funds make themselves available.

If we were to replace the front axle with a more durable and dependable one, which axle should we be considering on purchasing?
Post #969033 27th Oct 2022 3:12am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3399

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
^^^^ I have sourced myself a late Discovery 1 axle tube (wider radius arm brackets). But still on my 'to do list'. Actually not done yet because I want to replace the panhard rod brackets to be as per 2002 onward axles, which YRM can also supply - example https://yrmit.co.uk/product/lhs-front-axle-panhard-2-2/
Unfortunately shipping these to my location makes their price 3x. Big Cry 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #969034 27th Oct 2022 5:02am
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Payney1000



Member Since: 16 Feb 2022
Location: Brittany
Posts: 24

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black
To be honest, I would not trust anything they have said in the past regarding this topic from landrover.
I don't even trust the group of Vin and age they have done on this EU recall. The inspectors, engineers and the Lab bunnies' can only go by that group because my axle was in that group during testing, 23,000 euros of testing. The details of the vin and groups were requested by a court from Landrover and they dragged there feet. After what I am seeing daily on this case with my legal team I would not trust a word they say sorry !!!
Reference to the quote earlier with the 2018 axle box saying made in UK. This is also interesting because the material can be formed and welded in India but final assembly ( painted and packed in the UK ) falls under final assembly UK origin. This is quoted on the UK government site regarding tax groups
( Landrover don't currently have very little information on the tracking of these axles fitted on are vehicles ) This is what makes this problem even bigger!!!
Plus it was proven during the lab test on my axle that yes the age group 2012-2013 etc. Now but as the lab engineer said give in 3 years it will be 2015-2016 group. that's the worrying part.
(Its Landrover that needs to prove to every single owner that their vehicle is not effected But you need them to show you prove in writing, They will not put this in writing because they just don't know because of the mess its all in ) That's your legal standing.
Post #969064 27th Oct 2022 1:44pm
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Blue



Member Since: 13 Aug 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 43

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Cairns Blue
Quote:
Reference to the quote earlier with the 2018 axle box saying made in UK. This is also interesting because the material can be formed and welded in India but final assembly ( painted and packed in the UK ) falls under final assembly UK origin. This is quoted on the UK government site regarding tax groups


Yeah, not sure the country of orgin can be 100% relied upon on those LR labels... e.g.

Post #969095 27th Oct 2022 6:50pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4636

Ireland 
Regarding this fight that "Payney1000" is waging on our behalf. I do not know the ins and outs of it but I am sure that there is a heavy financial cost involved. As this will (hopefully) benefit us all I was thinking that perhaps we could contribute financially to help fund this fight.
Anyway that is the idea if anyone would like to run with this perhaps we could set something up. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #969097 27th Oct 2022 6:54pm
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