 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft failure, Forum Survey |
 
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| keith Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2211  
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It is unbelievable but as Cat says, “how many times are we meant to do this job before we wake-up and put the auto box in? Because if we don’t then you’d might as well sell the car straight after the repair.
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2nd Jan 2022 6:52pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298  
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not a great thought but.......if the shaft has gone again does that suggest the splines have worn leaving metalic 'shrapnel' now floating around the gearbox
in which case you may be a worse place than you were last time. not trying to make matters worse and I guess really we need to wait for it to be stripped down but I'm sure you're right in diagnosing the problem. 
I hope you're still able to have fun while awaiting repair etc.  |
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2nd Jan 2022 7:18pm |
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| keith Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2211
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Yep having fun thanks. Left home in a 110 and arrived in this.
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Last edited by keith on 2nd Jan 2022 8:21pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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2nd Jan 2022 8:20pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804  
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When my OS went whilst on holiday in Palma I left home in this: Click image to enlarge And was given this…… 
Click image to enlarge We had two bike boxes and full cycling gear and there were no hire cars big enough to carry all our gear. Mrs Grenadier loved turning up at the hotels we’d booked in that. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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2nd Jan 2022 8:43pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804
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A lot of people on here far more knowledgeable than I have mentioned the angle of the engine, gearbox and transfer case. Do we think that with the famously slack QC of Defender builds and the wider than acceptable tolerances, means that the reason some fail and some don’t is not so much that the parts are weak, but that they’re weak and then also badly put together? So even with an Ashcroft shaft replacement, if the whole linear configuration is particularly bad for a given individual vehicle, such as yours, it’s destined to fail no matter how much lube you put on the OE part, or whether you ‘upgrade’ it? I’ve just had my second failure, 40k on an OE part, but my trans case bushes had failed. Could even a couple of mil drop add extra stresses? Just a thought? Is everything in your driveline tight? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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2nd Jan 2022 8:51pm |
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| htb2 Member Since: 02 Nov 2018 Location: Carmarthenshire Posts: 525 
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Good old autoservices, bunch of shysters, recovery was good but workshop manager was hopeless and workshop were incompetent. all they had to do was replace a fractured kunifer brake pipe, had to replace all pipes myself when home. |
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2nd Jan 2022 8:55pm |
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| Westy Member Since: 28 Sep 2017 Location: Scotland Posts: 11 |
2011
2.4tdci 90 Pickup 74000 miles original shaft No Issues (touch wood) I have a LOF clutch and LOF one piece shaft sitting ready just in case. |
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2nd Jan 2022 8:56pm |
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| Co1 Member Since: 19 Aug 2018 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3670  
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I think this is exactly the problem. For Keith to go through so many and others to go through none would suggest that there is nothing wrong with the component itself, but it is being installed into a misaligned system. The difficult is in finding the culprit of the misalignment, be it either gear box output face, the transfer box adaptor or the transfer box itself. I would start by checking that both faces of the transfer box adaptor are parallel. Gloucester Nige has some good vids on it on his YouTube channel. The fact that the shaft is two piece is to allow for a level of misalignment in tolerances, otherwise a solid shaft would just move the weak point elsewhere, but there is only so much it will be able to cope with. |
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3rd Jan 2022 6:09am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17338 
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No, it is a conventional and inexpensive (and usually satisfactory) engineering approach to extending a shaft of this type in a manner which involves the minimum modifications to existing components. It allows for negligible misalignment, and we are all aware of what happens when there is misalignment - chronic wear, fretting, the parts separating, all leading to complete failure. A design intended to allow for misalignment would of necessity be very different. In many ways the standard design is more satisfactory than the one-piece alternative with its long thing through-bolt. It would be interesting to fit a LOF shaft in Keith's vehicle and run it for 20k miles to see what happens, my expectation would be a failure of the MT82 output splines or rear mainshaft bearing. I remain convinced that the root cause is a design which allows a manufacturer tolerance or QA problem. I think the likely suspect is the adaptor housing since the number of fault-free MT82 and LT230 gearbox in other applications suggest maturity. |
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3rd Jan 2022 9:12am |
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| Co1 Member Since: 19 Aug 2018 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3670
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It’s a valid point Blackwolf.
Keith: I think it’s well worth having the adaptor housing skimmed to ensure it is parallel. Would be very interested to see if it is out or not. |
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3rd Jan 2022 9:36am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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doesn't the ashcroft thingy effectively extend the gearbox casing to include the adapter shaft coupling ie gearbox and adapter use the same oil? |
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3rd Jan 2022 10:17am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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I agree to a point. the faces would need to be parallel but also the location of bolts would need to be spot on too, to ensure the shaft is straight. I'm not suggesting this is practical but I guess the shaft would ideally have two UJ's to allow for alignment is be made of rubber  |
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3rd Jan 2022 10:25am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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The Ashcroft 'thingy' is essentially a standard shaft that's drilled to allow lubrication by the gearbox oil. It doesn't alter the gearbox itself in any way. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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3rd Jan 2022 10:41am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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I appreciate it doesn't change the gearbox but if the gearbox oil can get to the shaft does that not mean the corrosion/debris from the shaft can make its way back to the gearbox?
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3rd Jan 2022 10:51am |
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