 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > SCOOP - New Defender DC100 |
 
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| discocuzzy Member Since: 16 Jul 2008 Location: surrey Posts: 1200  
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Well said Ads
 You cannot teach stupid people to do clever things |
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24th Sep 2011 11:41pm |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422 
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Well, we have to judge based on what we've seen. Anything else is pure speculation. And recently Land Rover vehicles have been quite close to their concepts.
You might be right. I don't know what total sales are like. I'm certainly seeing more of them round here than ever before. You're right that the Wrangler has for long been focused on the leisure market, instead of utility. But I could see a portion of the Defender market moving that way. |
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25th Sep 2011 1:29pm |
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| pcoote Member Since: 01 Aug 2010 Location: Oxford Posts: 83  
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Another excellent blog from Robert Pepper
http://www.4wdhandbook.com/rmp/blog/jeep-w...eplacement |
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28th Sep 2011 6:19pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5035 
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I cant be bother to quote
My points were - the camo wearing hardcore LR enthusiasts are neither the market for any of the current line up or enough of a market, so they can be discounted...it hurts but sorry. Land rover need a vehicle that sells volume - to all markets - the new defender will do that They need a car that retains its capability (and improves it) - the new defender will do that They need a car that has a good price point, but also comes with equipment consumers/businesses want - the new defender will do that. The point as DC made - the current defender is now dated and not fit for purpose. The Hilux, ranger etc all appeal to a wide range of users from business to leisure and does the job, not brilliantly, but they are outselling the defender as is...my point is the new defender will encapsulate the development those models received on the defender principle...all positive And my final point - if you actually look at the real DC100 you will notice some design clues from the current defender, and the vehicles mentioned - actually take a look at it!! I would venture that land rover will get it right and this forum wont, which is why we aren't driving around in leaf sprung series and why if I wanted to take and abuse my range rover i know they give the defenders a run for the money off road - all done in comfort whilst watching TV. Sorry guys the new defender is the future and will be a good one, not perfect - but better. Mike |
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28th Sep 2011 10:16pm |
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| ken Member Since: 18 Aug 2009 Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !! Posts: 4328
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Mike bang on well said
Now back to my G Wagon   |
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29th Sep 2011 6:04am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149 
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Fair enough many forum users are not and never will be in the market for a new Defender, but I knew since childhood that I wanted one, a new one, one day. I cannot accept I am the only one, as there are quite a few new vehicles on this forum alone. I got a new 110, and fully expected to hopefully buy another new one at some point in the future. I now will not be, certainly not a DC100 anyway, and it could well be that the proper Defender will be finished by the time I am ready to buy a new one. So, Landrover have lost my custom havn't they? In five years time, I could well be offered a transport contract which could see me wanting to buy a small fleet of vehicles. Will I be buying DC100s? No, I will not.
Yeah fine, there will probably be plenty of yuppie types to buy the ones I won't buy, but that's not really the point is it, they have lost my custom and I don't see how that can be spun into being a good thing. That money they could have earned wil now go elsewhere, assuming the DC100 sees production as-is or very close. Fact is I don't want a double cab pickup either for my company, as in my opinion they don't give the right image (too much bling, and associations with antisocial elements) and I don't want a DC100 either as I think they are hideously ugly. Im sorry but I feel the same way about the Discovery 3/4, and no way could I justify the cost of a Range Rover. I think its sad that Landrover managed to get the Range Rover and the sport so "right" looking, yet they havn't managed it with the Disco or DC100. I think the FL2 actually looks pretty good for what it is, same with the Evoque to a lesser extent, but neither really would be a sensible purchase for me. I suppose I may end up getting some kind of van or something. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but it does make the difference between a sale and not. I look at a lot of vehicles and just think they are ugly, and it pains me to think the same about Landrovers now. No matter what we say about markets and so on, they didn't have to make the DC100 so bloody ugly, and I have looked, really looked to try and find some cues from the past and they are simply not there, if anything it really reminds me of a slab-sided freelander 1. I also think there are serious questions about its capability which have not been adequately addressed yet. Ultimately we will never get agreement on this subject,as its just too personal to each poster. if Landrover end up selling millions of them then fine, but personally I hope they have a rethink and seriously tone it down, and do as Jeep have with the Wrangler in terms of the design and style. Whilst I respect the views of those who like the vehicle, I would point out that there is really very little positive being said, virtually nothing on any Landrover forum, even general motoring forums and magazines are maybe 1 post in support to ten posts against. Its not looking very good for Landrovers new baby, and I hope they pull their head out of the sand and realise this. I noticed even LRM magazine being VERY reserved about the DC100. Even the original Freelander and the P38 Range Rover didn't have this level of opposition. I'm also sad to see that a lot of the "support" seems to just be bashing "luddites" and "anoraks" without really explaining why it is the best route to take. A more conservative body design, with technological improvements, would be a better choice in my opinon. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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29th Sep 2011 6:39am |
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| PM 1 Member Since: 17 Oct 2010 Location: Northumberland Posts: 16
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I'll keep my view brief...In the history of Land Rover, they've never let us down. The DC100 is a test bed which LR can try out of the box ideas to see how the public react.
I think the DC100 has some nice features eg the rear lights. ...and after all, how much money have we all spent trying to make our defenders more practical, comfortable, rattle and draft free? I bet we've all spent money on a fancy cubby box, brighter lights, a gas strut on the back door or even better seats and heaters?!? Wouldn't it be great if the new generation Defender came with all this out the box? In my opinion, Land Rover could produce a basic Defender as they did with the TD5 disco whilst at the same time selling a fully loaded, air sprung, leather seated version to those who want an icon for use on the road! I'd proably go with something in between. Bring on 2015.. |
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29th Sep 2011 9:40am |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471 
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I am sure all this talk about what is after all a concept and not a production vehicle is providing LR with valuable input but there is no doubt that they are hoping to capture other market sectors so are pitching their vision accordingly. The statement that LR have never let us down could be up for debate when those of us who are old enough remember how the Series III and RRC were forced to soldier on against the Jap imports when LR was a cash starved part of the BL empire.
I'm sure LR were expecting and hopeful that a fair amount of hot air to be generated from the 'enthusiast' sector but in reality that group is just a minuscule portion of what in real terms they see as necessarily hugely broader target markets. If they get it right it will sell, if not it won't - simplez  Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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29th Sep 2011 10:16am |
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| pcoote Member Since: 01 Aug 2010 Location: Oxford Posts: 83
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Good points PM1 but the DC100 at the moment is just to small inside and does not have enough platform flexibility. So lets have this debate and get Landrover to move the DC100 down the right road. I have read Landrover have still not made up their minds on whether they can use the T5 chassis or have to design a new chassis, so it's all up there to play for.
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29th Sep 2011 10:21am |
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| MrFlips Member Since: 27 May 2009 Location: Cardiff Posts: 682  
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+1 Peter 2008 SWB Truck Cab 1952 80" Soft top |
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29th Sep 2011 11:10am |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422
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Hold on ... so what's this mythical 'miniscule' market of which we are a part? Who is buying Defenders today? The numbers are lower than with other models, maybe, but they're not miniscule, and it should be pretty straightforwards to get those numbers up. There are very obvious reasons why they are not higher. Why would you not want to sell to that obvious, existing, visible and very vocal market?
And what is this 'new' market Land Rover would be looking at? How does it differ from all those who are already buying Discos, Freelanders and RRs (in their many guises)? If it's the same, how does that help, by adding yet another choice for the same market? I've seen many companies lose ground when they forgot the reason why they exist in the first place. It almost happened to Apple. It's the reason Burberry still sells their original trench coat. It's why Porsche has their 911. Those things build brand distinctiveness and has a halo effect on everything else they do. Remember the basic sales rule: it's much cheaper to keep an existing customer than to sell to a new one. Nobody wants Land Rover to stand still (OK, some probably do, but I don't), but completely throwing away the traditional market, the heritage and the basic "DIY" style of the Defender seems suicidal to me. |
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29th Sep 2011 11:37am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149
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Yep absolutely spot on. As I said before, I was prepared to buy at least one new Defender, possibly a fleet of them. To now have to admit I won't if I can't get a "proper" defender is very embarrassing to me, especially as the people I bought mine off can read my words, and these are people who are not just salesmen, they have become friends over the time. I would love to go and order a fleet of 110s in five years time to build up my company, I simply cannot do that with the DC100 as it does not tick all the right boxes for me. The "old school" design of the current Defender says it is no-nonsense vehicle, and it "talks" about old fashioned values like trustworthyness, solidity and dependability. The comments about low sales I think also make a valid point. I do not believe for one moment that the Defender loses sales 'cos its a little cramped or a bit "old-fashioned' its main problems are poor build quality, lack of reliability and expensive running costs (both on fuel and servicing/repairs). If Landrover sorted those, they would see more Defenders being sold, I would even think that if it cost, say, and extra £250 a vehicle to see a noticeable increase in build quality and painting, they would still sell in increased numbers. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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29th Sep 2011 1:12pm |
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| Sonic3d Member Since: 28 Jan 2008 Location: Ross on Wye Posts: 1505 
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I can`t believe the amount of negative people on here
everyone is complaining that it won`t do this or won`t do that it`s only a bl##dy concept get over it. |
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29th Sep 2011 1:58pm |
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| lrmaniac Member Since: 04 Feb 2010 Location: Lisboa Posts: 762  
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well said!
I hope you're right! Really! Regards Joao '10 Land Rover Defender 110 CC '08 BMW F800GS '64 SIIA Forward Control '69 SIIA 109 ZA CKD _____________________________________________ You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you. |
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29th Sep 2011 2:45pm |
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