 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.4 not starting ..... immobiliser??? |
 
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| Stu_XS Member Since: 22 Jul 2018 Location: Hampshire Posts: 86   
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I have a black box unit, not 10AS but Siemens using the Lucas fobs. GAP IID communicates with that no problem.
I’m on the lookout for the replacement unit which uses the newer style fobs and external receiver, I’m told GAP IID communicates with those too. Stu... 2013 Aintree Green 90 XS SW 2.2 Puma |
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2nd Nov 2019 10:23pm |
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| Andrewdb Member Since: 21 Oct 2019 Location: Sweden Posts: 11  
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Hi all, I ve have a 2008 110 Puma which 2 weeks ago started with the same issues as described in this post.Car turns over and sometimes will start and immediately stop, after that it won't turn over. Locking the car and opening agina just leads to the same thing. Have changed the fob batteries and a brand new main batery, but no luck. I have a Nanocom, but it doesn't show any tested or permanent faults. Not tested show that there seems to be a signal fault. I live in Sweden and getting support over here is difficult, nearest Main dealer is 300km. Would appreciate any help you guys could provide to try and get the car going again.
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3rd Nov 2019 9:12am |
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| sam7345 Member Since: 10 Feb 2019 Location: Cornwall Posts: 6
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Any one have issues with the puma 2.4 cranking, firing then dying? Had this intermittent fault for last few years!
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23rd Nov 2019 12:08pm |
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| sam7345 Member Since: 10 Feb 2019 Location: Cornwall Posts: 6
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Any one have issues with the puma 2.4 cranking, firing then dying? Had this intermittent fault for last few years!
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23rd Nov 2019 12:09pm |
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| nicholas2012 Member Since: 28 Jun 2012 Location: lanarkshire Posts: 193  
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Could it possibly be a bad connection or iffy sensor at the flywheel for rev counter? when I replaced the engine in mine I hadn't the sensor close enough to fly wheel teeth for a signal at first at it wouldn't fire but turned over
With most immobiliser faults I think the immobiliser light on dash will stay on |
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23rd Nov 2019 1:17pm |
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| sam7345 Member Since: 10 Feb 2019 Location: Cornwall Posts: 6
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Well, finally I got to the bottom of this long and painful issue. I discovered with all 3 plugs removed from the ECU the engine would still crank🤔. So after finding out that the black/orange wire in pin c0872-L2 was missing, and I believe has just been earthed somewhere. I started looking at the realys under the seat, just happens to twist the main relay holder and the brown/orange wire on pin 87 broke off, looked like it had been hanging on by a thread for some time. Replaced both the main and starter relays just as a matter of course and it hasn’t missed a beat.
I would like to know who removed the wire coming from the ECU though, I bought this defender as an ex-demonstrator which was barely 6months old. I’ve always thought the bodgey looking insulation tape on this loom was a little suspect 😂. |
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29th Nov 2019 8:21am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604 
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Good find, well done.
The Black/Orange is fed from one of two places depending on the year - either the 10AS or the engine ECU. So the fact it's missing on your ECU loom isn't necessary an issue, it's clearly there at the other end and so must be coming from the 10AS   1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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29th Nov 2019 9:03am |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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29th Nov 2019 9:42am |
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| sam7345 Member Since: 10 Feb 2019 Location: Cornwall Posts: 6
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I see, that’s good to know!
I spoke to soon the issue has re-appeared. Seems to only be when it has been left for a good few hours, however if I remove the brown/orange wire from the relay whilst cranking, then connect it back up again it ushally starts after a few attempts. Why would this trigger it to start? I do believe the glow plugs to be on the way out, but no fault codes. Could they cause this issue? |
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1st Dec 2019 9:28pm |
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| Zixxer Member Since: 04 Dec 2019 Location: Tipperary Posts: 17  
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Hello lads I have a 2.4 behaving the very same as the original poster’s - she is the most basic spec with no key fobs or central locking etc. She drives perfectly when she starts and has only begun to give trouble in the last week. I bought a new battery and cleaned and checked all the under seat relays several times - sometimes she’ll burst into life and runs perfectly.
I’m getting desperate now and hoped somebody might show me how to use the “shunt” to bypass the problem as mentioned earlier in the thread. Thanks for your assistance |
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4th Dec 2019 4:15pm |
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| Scarvister87 Member Since: 08 Feb 2020 Location: Shetland Posts: 6
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Hi
I seem to have the same problem with mine! Unfortunately this time it decided not to start again sitting on the mot testers ramp! The mechanic tried his best to get her going but he had a que of cars waiting to be tested. I have managed to get her back to my shed and been reading through a lot of your post and trying everything you guys have suggested over the past few weeks but I haven’t had any luck as yet. The only thing I am yet to try is this ipac shunt so if anybody could explain this to me it would be very much appreciated! Thanks |
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8th Feb 2020 6:37pm |
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| Zixxer Member Since: 04 Dec 2019 Location: Tipperary Posts: 17
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Have you tried replacing the crank sensor
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8th Feb 2020 6:43pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604
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If the rpm needle moves during cranking it probably isn’t the crank sensor.
The "shunt" is actually a bypass of the wiring of the immobiliser comms link through the instrument pack. Land Rover did this themselves when the 2.2 was introduced. You need to access the instrument pack connector, remove it and make a temporary link between pins 3 and 4 with the likes of a straightened out plain metal paper clip. If it now fires, your problem is the immobiliser link and you have two options: Send the instrument pack for repair of the soldering of the socket to the PCB (I can do this for you through my business) - or do it yourself if capable 
Alternatively dismantle the connector and remove pins 3 and 4 (light green and grey wires to both) and join them permanently. Or if you like, cut the light green and grey wires where they enter the connector and join the loom sides together permanently, bypassing the cluster. This makes the comms link between the 10AS alarm/immobiliser and the ECU a single wire without the instrument pack in the circuit (as per the 2.2). The instrument pack will now log a fault if diagnosed as it does not see an incoming signal from the immobiliser, but this does not affect the instrument pack or vehicle operation whatsoever. Also I feel this is NOT a security issue as the immobiliser itself is not bypassed, and this factory design of "in and out" wiring via the instrument pack only means that the engine won’t start if the instrument pack is missing. However a missing instrument pack would be no problem for a thief as bridging 3 and 4 (on the now easily accessible connector) restores the link, which is clear from the wiring diagrams. I fixed a 2010MY basic spec Puma with this issue last week. It would crank, and the RPM needle moved, but an signal tester showed the ECU wasn’t firing the injectors at all. Bridging 3 and 4 allowed it to start straight away  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SWLast edited by Martin on 16th Jul 2021 9:04am. Edited 2 times in total |
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8th Feb 2020 7:05pm |
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| Scarvister87 Member Since: 08 Feb 2020 Location: Shetland Posts: 6
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Thank you very much for your advice!!! I’ll see what I can go and do!
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8th Feb 2020 7:15pm |
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