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Happyoldgit



Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Apparently not fixed, you either wait and hope for the best or inspect and deal with it accordingly.

As I keep saying the official Land Rover line [or passing the buck to the dealers] regarding the issue as published on this forum is Censored Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.
Post #532890 19th May 2016 9:24am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17338
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
MadTom wrote:
Using Loctite - look at the Discovery 2 halfshafts. They are loctited to the hubs. But it was designed this way.


They also (if memory serves) have a flange against which the hub is securely clamped by a rather tight nut, so the splines themselves are doing far less work and there is very little possibility of movement.

On the Defender halfshafts the situation is very different.

I still feel that there are tolerance issues involving shaft alignment having an effect on the output adaptor shaft problem, I cannot see any other reason why there is such a variation in life expectancy of this coupling on otherwise identical vehicles. It would be fascinating to see the tech drawings for the parts involved (gearbox, shaft components, transfer box, etc) to calculate the limits and fits but this information will never be released by LR.

defender9 wrote:
Is this still a problem with the latest vehicles 14, 15 and 16 plate or have LR fixed it?


You bet. There is marginally more chance that there is some lubricant on more recent vehicles, but it is pretty evident that many premature failures are occurring. Some years do seem to be worse than others - there don't seem to be many 2007 failures, but there seem to be a great many 2010 failures, for example (info based on a statistically-inadequate survey of Def2 Forum members, so far from conclusive).
Post #532901 19th May 2016 10:03am
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298
England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Fatboy Slim wrote:
Tried pretty much everything. Caterpillar desert gold lasts the longest but still not the answer. Unless you can keep greasing it periodically it'll just dry out and wear no matter what you do. FYI some of our site vehicles were lucky to get 5000 miles out of a shaft. Rubbish bit of design. The casing between the two boxes should be sealed and full of oil.


forgive .....but that sounds easy enough to achieve. why hasn't anyone tried that yet?
Post #532905 19th May 2016 10:14am
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298
England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
You bet. There is marginally more chance that there is some lubricant on more recent vehicles, but it is pretty evident that many premature failures are occurring. Some years do seem to be worse than others - there don't seem to be many 2007 failures, but there seem to be a great many 2010 failures, for example (info based on a statistically-inadequate survey of Def2 Forum members, so far from conclusive).


based on above and assuming lubrication isn't the only reason why would the 2007 models fair better than 2010?

did something else change ie is the spec on the gear boxes and transfer box identical?
Post #532906 19th May 2016 10:20am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17338
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Who knows, perhaps an additional supplier came online, or a different subcontractor, or parts were supplied which didn't conform to spec, or a different assembly method was used. We will never know.

Landrover however definitely should know or be able to find out, and the fact that they haven't suggests that this problem doesn't exist on their radar, probably because not enough failures are reported to them or repaired under warranty (or they don't care because there are now so few vehicles still under warranty, and the number will get smaller year on year for the next 3 years).

If, however, someone had their shaft fail somewhere catastrophic, for example on a level crossing, and the failure resulted in multiple fatalities and a public outrage, then I bet something would be done. Perhaps if the Puma Defender had been sold in the US of A, the home of liability litigation, something would have been done.
Post #532928 19th May 2016 11:44am
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298
England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
good idea BW.

could we perhaps get someones Puma that has just failed. fill it with some thieving low lifes and push it onto a train line and perhaps off the back of that LR might introduce a recall?


Thumbs Up good thinking. Bow down
Post #532931 19th May 2016 11:51am
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LR90XS2011



Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3639
United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green
what about the poor train driver /passengers, didnt go well last time a train hit a land rover

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/28/...68x286.jpg DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy
Post #533009 19th May 2016 6:58pm
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Happyoldgit



Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Probably best you stick to fault finding on your own vehicle Wayne. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.
Post #533085 19th May 2016 9:37pm
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298
England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Very Happy

I've had to give up Steve - I've concluded there simply isn't enough days in the week to complete my fault finding.........and the saga continues.

clank clank clank from underneath (gearbox area) Crying or Very sad


trust you're still keep well / happy tho ?
Post #533116 20th May 2016 6:35am
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Happyoldgit



Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
I'm my usual chipper self thanks Wink Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.
Post #533137 20th May 2016 8:54am
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298
England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Thumbs Up
Post #533172 20th May 2016 12:08pm
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AlanH



Member Since: 15 Mar 2010
Location: WA
Posts: 242
Australia 
Whether or not that damned shaft or anything else got greased was probably down to whoever assembled it.... some cared and didn't mind a bit of grease between the fingers, others hated it.
In the latter years of my fitter apprenticeship (Blaw Knox Rochester '59 - 64) I built gearboxes for pavers/graders etc. and took the utmost care in matching shafts to gears etc. No play was my aim, or very little, good sliding fit.
A friend who was known as a big hammer man would slap stuff together anyway he could to earn more money on the bonus (piecework) system. His idea of matching parts was to use a chisel to take up slack on splines...... This got found out pretty quick by the job inspectors.
Guess who got the best jobs requiring skill and it wasn't him. Even the union told him he was to blame and wouldn't back his complaints of not getting the best jobs.
I suspect LR and other mass production type jobs suffer from exactly his attitude from some of their workers. And we pay for it with breakdowns.
My MY2010 with 160K on the clock will be modified soon.
AlanH.
Post #533356 21st May 2016 8:28am
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YOLO110



Member Since: 14 Feb 2015
Location: Perth Oz and Stansted UK
Posts: 1641
Australia 
The one thing that really bothers me with all of this... is that if/when the output shaft fails, it is simply replaced by JLR with a new identical version. So the same ticking time bomb remains...

Seems to me the only way to go is with replacing it with a design fix that is proven not to fail... Whistle YOLO... You Only Live Once...
Post #533383 21st May 2016 10:48am
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298
England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Does such a thing exist tho?

I think I may have said this (or similar) before?

In theory this method should be fine ie it's in essence the same as the drive flanges and how the friction plate attaches. No doubt it's the same as how much the gearbox out put shafts on the other models attach to transfer box ie male / female connection so presumably it's the way it's been implemented that's the problem. So what is causing the premature failures. Once we know that perhaps we can work out a fix. To my mind the lateral play on the gbox output shaft can't be helping?

Or am I just talking waffle?
Post #533403 21st May 2016 12:23pm
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R1200GS



Member Since: 12 Jul 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 265
United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Keswick Green
Never seen a report on the Ashcroft unit failing yet ........
Post #533429 21st May 2016 3:27pm
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