 | Home > Off Topic > EU in or Out |
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| NJS22 Member Since: 26 Oct 2012 Location: Cornwall Posts: 169   
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Just wondered what the average Defender owners view of the EU In or Out opinion was? 1998 90 50th Anniversary 4.0 V8
2016 90 Adventure 2015 Range Rover Sport 1971 Range Rover 2 Door Wife won't let me have any more...!!! |
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21st Feb 2016 9:43pm |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
to much has been given away to the eu and too many people in power have vested interest in eu for there own profit
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21st Feb 2016 10:09pm |
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| shaggydog Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 3347 
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I am honestly undecided.
There are pros and cons to both arguments but I am yet to see any good well presented facts for ether. I'm sure in the next few weeks and months there will be a lot of hype and pandering from all sides of the argument and I am looking forward to being able to have an intellectual discussion on a subject which has been hanging over politics for many years. Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197 Self confessed mileage hunter  |
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21st Feb 2016 10:13pm |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1780  
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What people need is unbiased facts, it always seems to be people in the public view be they industrial leaders (not that we have many left) politicians etc all have a vested interest.
I also cannot see how there can be a clean break. for good or bad I think we are way past the point of no return. When economic downturns happen it always seem to scr3w the ordinary working man or woman in the street, the rich get richer & the benefits keep being paid. The 22 miles of water was the best thing we had but that border was given away years ago and I'm afraid of what it will cost this generation to get it back. |
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21st Feb 2016 10:25pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5035 
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I agree with both the last posts, we need facts and need to think of the big picture the consequences not just the political hype
There are lots of advantages to being in Europe - one of the biggest problems, as i see it, is the British view of Europe and our country..which is unfortunately not the same as reality and this miss match isnt good...Britain isnt the best place since sliced bread...there are loads of ideals and countries in Europe better...we just seem to take the lowest common denominator and then blame Europe for the problems. Other countries dont let he Europe argument impact their actions, business, economy, trade etc - they use it...we just seem to let Westminster people screw us with it, thats where the real change is needed not to stay within a group that i think is probably better for us day to day. Finally, i think we need to think about day to day impacts on US, not the country: - What will it do to the stuff we buy - What will it do to us when we go on holiday etc etc Mike |
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21st Feb 2016 11:14pm |
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| Birdy Member Since: 07 Oct 2011 Location: Côte d'Azur Posts: 865 
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All bets are off now that David Cameron hasn't been able to come back and tell the UK's financial institutions that he's been able to negotiate a "multicurrency union", with 19 Euro-Members and 9 Non-Members, with one of the latter (i.e. the UK) still being able to influence Euro policy. He's been told in no uncertain terms that the currency of the European Union is the Euro; the UK is guaranteed an opt-out from it, what more do we want?
His benefit debate was a non-starter - again, he was told that it's up to each Member State to decide how it wants to structure its benefits schemes and social security systems through its own national law. But there must be no discrimination: put crudely, you can't deny a Pole and his six kids housing, benefits and NHS care 'cos he's never paid anything into the pot, for as long as you do it for three generations of British chav living in the same house having never worked a day in their lives. Average Defender owner? Probably vote out. Average white van driver? Out. Average Bentley owner? In. Average Mercedes owner? In. Average Vauxhall owner? Whatever the Daily Mail's headline is on 23 June Peter |
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21st Feb 2016 11:53pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20348
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Being well before my time I have one question and a reason why I think you can't just renake on it.
Pre EU the UK was self sufficient or practically, afterwards more and more has been done in the EU and shipped to the UK. Do you think it is possible to bring all that back now all the factories have been demolished and replaced with housing? Also now that education has been put forward as preference for the young and now many don't have hardly any practical skills and many cant even cook. 
We've got a trades skills shortage in this country and foreigners bridging the gap. Yet, where are the young people? Most are led to believe they are better than that chasing the dream jobs that some will never achieve all the while the foreigners are keeping the country's ball rolling on filling the void. |
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22nd Feb 2016 12:06am |
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| Petronius4 Member Since: 07 Oct 2015 Location: Somerset Posts: 94 
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I'm willing to bet if the vote is 'out' we will see a bunch of 'special arrangements' introduced to pretty much maintain the status quo.
I do worry about what it means for mobility of work - I have spent much of my career working/travelling in mainland Europe and have worked with many professionals from those countries who work in the UK and I wouldn't want to change that opportunity for my children. I think the idea of sovereignty is outdated, I agree what we have at the moment does NOT work but when you think most of the European country borders were only 'drawn' in the 20th century it gives you a perspective that borders are nothing but pencil marks on a map. In 100 years time there will be no borders at all, global migration is happening at an exponential rate so there will be no cultural basis or need for country identities. Sad I know but inevitable. The issue, as previously mentioned, is that there are too many corrupt, greedy, money-grabbing, power obsessed freeloaders who run the system - personally I think anybody who wants to work in the European parliament should automatically be banned from it and it should be staffed by people who's objective is to make the Eurozone a competitive world economic power and not spend months debating why you can't call a pasty a cornish pasty unless its made in cornwall or why all cheese and onion crisps have to be renamed. There are some benefits we have seen though - remember huge mobile phone bills after travelling into Europe? Well the Belgians used to get the same when driving across the border into France and without that debate we'd still be faced with the ridiculous fees from mobile operators. EU subsidies have transformed Ireland, Spain, Portugal and many others and to me thats a good thing. For now, I'd like my country to be part of a Europe that competes equally on the world economic stage, has free movement of people WITHIN its border and focuses on improving the life of those within NOT worrying about the name of bags of salty snacks or 'which is the best way to line my own pocket'. ------------------------------- 👲🏻 1986 ex-Military 90 NAD 2.5 Soft Top. Sold 🇬🇧 2015 Defender 90 - Ripon Landrover Heritage 006 |
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22nd Feb 2016 12:06am |
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| lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006  
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In the short term I can see why people might think out of Europe is good, but long term and I see it being beneficial to stop in. As has been said most of the issues this country faces are of our own making not externally generated by the European Union. However if we do leave it will force us to deal with the decisions of the past and the problems those decisions have given us in the present. May the gods be merciful. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.
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22nd Feb 2016 5:49am |
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| Kraut Member Since: 28 Dec 2011 Location: Westphalia Posts: 336  
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From an onlookers view I would really like to see Britain staying in the EU. In fact the EU has to change dramatically in a lot of ways, but these changes would be better to influence if Britain stayed within the community.
But what I really feel being one of the main reasons to stay is far beyond from doing local busines und economic facts: It's probably based on my countrys nationalism and the history of europe during the last centuries, especially during the 19th and 20th century. Since the european integration there haven't been any wars in central europe. Freedom is one of the main achievements of the european project for several decades. It's always better to argue with friends and find solutions where every side gives and receives something. Even I'm not convinced about the direction the EU went the last years with going far to the eastern countries and the lack of standing for each other (you just have to have a look at the refugee crisis), but I don't think all the countries would have had a better development without the EU. There has been a topic on here about the decline of Britains industrial sectors a few months ago with the problems with bad managements and too unilaterally acting unions from the 60s to the 80s resulting in the big problems you all know. I think it's not the result of belonging to the EU. For sure there have been decisions against Britain, but ther have been some from which Britain benefited too. I always felt more european than german in the first place, I really believe in the integration of our countries, so here's my vote ,-) PLEASE STAY!!!! |
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22nd Feb 2016 8:45am |
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| DonH2000 Member Since: 12 Jan 2015 Location: North Kent Posts: 551 
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In the 1970's I was a couple of years too young to vote then in the referendum and it was about joining a Trade Group of European Nations and not about laws and dictates from a body who's accounts have not been signed off for the last 20 years.
Also we in the UK "Gold Plate" and enforce any regulation whilst the others just pay lip service to them. You just have to drive around France, Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal to see examples such as tractors with no roll hoops, car,trucks and 4x4's without working rear lights, motorcyclists with no helmets and more than 2 people on the bikes! Scaffolding made from sticks, not to mention no wonky vegetables (only straight cucumbers etc). It is would be a joke if it was not such an un-level playing field. What's coming soon is the banning of diesels vehicles in towns and city's, bin tax's on each household and a levee on petrol and diesel to pay for migrant crisis! Trade Yes but a European Government No. That's me finished for now, I'm off to have a lie down.......... Cheers Don. |
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22nd Feb 2016 9:10am |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
IN.........Safety in numbers,ftw.Nothing to do with uk v Eu,Everything to do with UK v China/rest of the world. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
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22nd Feb 2016 1:34pm |
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| camelman Member Since: 27 Feb 2013 Location: Peak District Posts: 3372
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Interesting (if long winded) report here:
http://www.global-counsel.co.uk/system/fil...e_2015.pdf  |
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22nd Feb 2016 1:51pm |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
TL:DR
The Uk buys stuff ,mainly from China.Hard to disagree with ,no?? The Uk is a NATION OF SHOP KEEPERS,in other words our economy relies on people spending money in shops like Argos,Tesco,Morrisons etc.. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5. |
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22nd Feb 2016 1:57pm |
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