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| Linds Hanson Member Since: 16 Jan 2021 Location: Cornwall Posts: 511  
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Just a further note to anyone contemplating vehicle underside coatings having been involved with professional vehicle applications for over forty years. We obviously started with the usual wet wax applications using Waxoyl and progressing through the Dinitrol products etc. Wet wax is effective on good clean non corroded areas to protect manufactures coatings etc but should NEVER be applied to any previously corroded surfaces even if they have been descaled and treated with a "rust converter". Preparation as always is key with any treatment and unfortunately this does require extensive disassembly of the vehicle to gain access and prep all areas effectively. We have found that paint based products which contain rust inhibitors and properly seal the surfaces are the most successful long term process, only surpassed by galvanising. This not only prevents further deterioration but is easy to keep clean and is dry to touch. A dry cavity wax would be suitable for inner box sections that have been thoroughly cleaned and dried.
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9th Apr 2025 12:28pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5025
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At last a chance to work on my own pride and joy and a chance to check on the 7 year old Dinitrol before I fit the rear wings. Back in the 70's SAAB chained a few SAAB 95's to the rocky shore line to check how the rust treatments were holding up. I will find a pic later. Scandinavian cars had to last twice as long as european cars due to the harsh conditions. 12 years instead or 6 or 7.
Those of a certain age will remember Supertrol. Whilst Waxoyl original has always been pretty useless in layman's terms, Supetrol was a highly effective epoxy/bitchumen based system developed from such testing. Dinitrol 4941 is the modern equivalent (epoxy/bitchumen) which dries to a smart matt black finish or clear with 4010. The advantage is that you are not trapping in corrosion on welds, overlapping seams and extremely tight spaces where its impossible to get anything in to prep the metal. Dinitrol clear coat is especially good as you can keep an eye on rust. As the previous post mentions to be able to paint metal you have to guarantee it is rust free which entails as said completely stripping down each component of the car and media blasting/acid dipping etc which all bring their own issues. That Is obviously just not practical for many and the cost prohibitive. You also still cannot guarantee you can get into seams, welds, inside hole edges etc and you don't want to trap rust behind paint. An example of this is how often rear cross members are repainted due to the upper horizontal seam you cannot get into effectively, inside edges of the holes, etc. A hard paint will hide the corrosion for much longer but it's all rotting away underneath. Another significant factor is, as we all know chassis tend to rot from the inside out first!!!! As mentioned in the previous post a cavity wax is suitable for that but I use a kind of runny one Dinitrol 1000 so it doesn,t build up over time and trap in corrosion. For a belt and braces job spray in ACF-50 first on a 360 degree spray head. What ever you do don,t use Lanoguard which is simply a mass marketed thin glue. You have to prep and treat rust first. Covering it with a thin glue (made like this so it can be pumped easily for DIY sales of course) is hopeless. I can't believe people are still being fooled despite all the negative feedback. How on earth people think a glue will magically cure corrosion is beyond me. The feel good factor doesn't last long!! It's all been said before on that one.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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13th Apr 2025 8:36am |
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| L110CDL Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Devon Posts: 10969 
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Thanks for the pic update, she is looking great there
 Clayton.
1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up. Keeper. |
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14th Apr 2025 8:49pm |
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| revd Member Since: 20 Apr 2024 Location: England Posts: 234
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I disagree that 'waxoyl has always been pretty useless'
My 2002 Defender 90 was waxoyled (clear stuff, not the bitumen black underseal variety) regularly from new and is still driving around locally on its original chassis, crossmember, and bulkhead with 200k miles showing. What is pretty useless is trying to turn back the clock on a neglected Defender - one where nothing has been done to protect the chassis and where no effort has been made to clean the nooks and crannies of accumulated mud and dirt. (Regular application of water from the garden hose was all I ever did.) Dinitrol, Bilt Hamber etc are all pretty useless if never actually applied. My current 110 is still on original chassis etc but I've only had it a year, I can only assume it lead a charmed life, covering a mere 37k miles in eighteen years. I have treated with Bilt Hamber and will reapply once we have a prolonged dry hot spell this coming summer. |
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15th Apr 2025 6:48am |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5025
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Apologies 'Revd' I should have explained in more detail (I've just detailed it so many times before over the last 20 years, I'm boring myself with it all now 🤣).
The original Waxoyl is simply a thick wax, oil and spirit. For the DIY user it needs to be warmed to be able to pump it out of a nozzle for application. When warm And applied in box sections it simply slides down the inside of vertical surfaces and all ends up sitting in the bottom. Over time the wax element dries and becomes cakey. Water is absorbed into the medium resulting in a situation where you have something akin to a lump of mud or wet rag sitting in the chassis just rotting the metal away. You can see this in the following picture. Click image to enlarge Waxoyl also shrinks allowing water to creep down the sides and go underneath, again trapping in moisture. On the inside of doors also Waxoyl original is not vibration proof so it simply comes away from the metal once a door is slammed. See pic below showing this. Click image to enlarge Dinitrol and Built Hamber are epoxy based (glue based) with a bitchumen. They stick to the sides 360 degrees and stay there, they don't, shrink and they are vibration proof. The outer coatings of Built Hamber remain tacky and streaky so I have not found anything better than Dinitrol in the last 20 years as it dries, is not tacky and is a uniform smart finish not streaky as shown in my previous picture of the SAAB wheel arch. Heat doesn,t affect it either. I remember using Waxoyl as a kid on my first SAAB. The next day was Hot. The Waxoyl had melted further and poured out over my fathers tarmac drive making it bubble up. Luckily the bubbles went down over time. Everyone knows Waxoyl because they had the infrastructure to replace stock almost immediately when it was sold off the shelves. Chains like Halfords do not have big storage facilities at each site due to cost. Dinitrol remains a smaller concern in the U.K. as a franchise based business. In Scandinavia however their are Dinitrol garages where you simply book in for routine top ups. Lanoguard, it's known because of massive marketing. Mr Lanoguard who I spoke to a few years ago (nice guy) when it first came out has built himself a huge lucrative empire. When pushed however he did admit (as his cleverly scripted sales team do) that the ingredient is basically a thin glue and nothing else. Hence the reason it has to be reapplied regularly. It doesn't stop rust of course. The only way it slows down rust is by cutting off oxygen. Well that doesn't work of course with corrosion deeper than surface rust, and in seams, welds etc etc. It's a feel good factor for the DIY'er... but not for long. You will always get people loyal to their product like you are with Waxoyl. You have the same with people who like Lanoguard or people that use rock hard paint like Buzzweld or Raptor or thick rubber based products that just trap rust in. It doesn't stop rust it just stops it from showing through!! There is no magical product, just people who are fooled. You cannot avoid preparation of metal, correcting the rust wiith rust converters, ACF-50 etc, and yes you have to use nasty, sticky, smelly, bitchumen products that you have to spray on and damage your lungs. Get Dinitrol in your hair and you have to wash your hair in white spirit, get it on your skin and it will be there for weeks. I would love to just spray on Lanoguard but I wouldn,t do that to a client, money is not my motivation. Local garages are feeling the come back from it. Customers not happy. More referrals for me and get it done right. |
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15th Apr 2025 8:24am |
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| seriesonenut Member Since: 19 Nov 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 1242
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Hi Zagato, as ever great advice.
I have an early One Ten which was fitted with a galvanised chassis 15 years or so go. Having said that it sat in barn for 10 of those years and has only recently returned to the road. I would describe the chassis as weathered and now dull in appearance (with exception of the rear cross member which still looks new) I am a fan of Dinitrol but I am not sure what to do with an 'older' galvanised chassis . Is it wise to apply dinitrol now or leave the outside? Should I be applying something to the internals? Any advice would be appreciated Thank you 1984 One-Ten CSW 2010 XS USW (sold) 1957 Series One 88 diesel 1958 Series One 88 4x2 |
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15th Apr 2025 9:15am |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5025
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Oh fantastic
As you know galvanising is simply a sacrificial layer and will corrode through actually quite quickly in the box sections if you have wet mud for instance up against it. If you have mud inside which I'm guessing is unlikely then flush thoroughly, you may want to drill drain holes if you haven't any and spray in Dinitrol 1000 or 3125 on a 360 degree extension nozzle available in aerosols. Don't go through Rejel as they were taken over, they are now really expensive and ordering anything is a chore as they don,t answer there phones. I use World of Lubrication but shop around. Galvanising is a real belt and braces job however as we know. If you are not going through mud and salt the external areas will last years. It really then becomes a cosmetic decision. Personally, esp for a Series One I prefer the original black look so I would would paint it with a chassis paint after etch priming (I did this with my new Richards Galvanised Series llA chassis). It so much easier to do off the car during the build, I don,t know why garages don't do it more. Click image to enlarge |
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15th Apr 2025 11:58am |
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| revd Member Since: 20 Apr 2024 Location: England Posts: 234
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Zagato.
No apology needed  And the topic is not boring for me at least.
Waxoyl has its limitations but it worked for me, however I have been using Bilt Hamber for the last dozen or so years - on the extruded aluminium chassis of various Elises which I no longer have - and the remaining supplies are being used up on my Defender. Personally I don't think it matters greatly which product you use as long as you are using something on a regular basis, and keep the underside clean and free from mud and salt, and park up in a well ventilated garage. Obviously for a commercial rust-proofer a product that stays in place and active will keep customer happy and be good for business but for a DIYer regular application is more important than outright performance, even engine oil will keep rust at bay. |
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15th Apr 2025 12:50pm |
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| seriesonenut Member Since: 19 Nov 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 1242
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Hi Zagato
Thanks for the guidance . The chassis is under a 1984 One Ten. I will definitely treat the internals. Would 4941 be okay to spray the chassis externals? Here are a couple of shots of the condition chassis 1 by Richard Holmes, on Flickr
chassis2 by Richard Holmes, on Flickr
many thanks 1984 One-Ten CSW 2010 XS USW (sold) 1957 Series One 88 diesel 1958 Series One 88 4x2 |
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15th Apr 2025 1:56pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5025
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Yes if you don,t want to paint then a layer of 1000 overcoated with top coat 4941 will be fine. You will want to paint your rear crossmember however.
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15th Apr 2025 6:52pm |
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