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Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1997

I don’t think I’ve ever got to 4200 revs in my 2.2.... oh no, that means I’m officially old

13th Oct 2023 1:02pm

piechipsandpeas

Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 209

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver

13th Oct 2023 1:04pm

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 720

piechipsandpeas wrote:
He does make the statement that the 38bhp increase is at the top end of the rev range and if you look at the dyno graph in the video it does show that sort of bhp difference at around 4200 rpm. Obviously you're unlikely to drive around at that sort of revs, but there looks to be an increase over the whole rev range.

I think claims of 38hp increase from just an airbox would need independently validating, as it sounds somewhat ambitious based on the 1000's of engines and cars developed and sold in the past 100 years+

i.e. it would be highly unusual to make such gains from such a modest change. And would scream that either there was a deliberate restrictor added to the factory one to limit power or a major blooper and engineering failure on a rather massive scale.

Do you have the dyno charts at hand?

13th Oct 2023 1:23pm

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3372

Click image to enlarge

13th Oct 2023 1:30pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1997

So if the graphs are correct, then technically you can get circa 38BHP more, however that’s at circa 4200 revs ! And that’s not where you would be changing gear . So a bit of unnecessary over marketing in my view.

Where you are more likely to change gear , especially in 1st to second and second to 3rd is 2500 - 2700 revs, and the difference here looks to be circa 5-8 BHP. From the graph that seams to be where the most torque is as well, which bears out when you would do those gear changes.

In my mind it looks to be a nice solution , I like the way it uses the existing brackets, I like the way the filter is clamped as it gives adjustment to differing manufacturers filter sizes which can vary in length by 5mm or so even if they are quoted as the same fit ( the nuggetstuff one does not have an adjustment in the filter clamping and is an issue ), I like the (cheaper) option to have the intake pipe in the same position as the original airbox so you can use nuggetstuff or nakatanenga pipes if you already have them or prefer them. It looks easy to remove as well which helps when working on other components in that area.

My experience with the nuggetstuff v2 airbox , with nakatanenga intake hose, bas intercooler and silicon hoses is the vehicle performs much better and I expect the alisport solution would perform the same or even better with that even larger filter.
It is not anything like getting a map, or gaining 38BHP and lots more torque where it’s needed , but you will feel the improvement even on a standard map.

Note: one issue that some have encountered when changing out the old airbox and intake pipe for a nuggetstuff one is during heavy rain moisture, in some cases a lot of water, gets into the airbox and soaks the filter and builds up in the bottom of the airbox ( a very bad thing).
This happens if the standard side or wing top is used for the new air intake pipe as there is no water separator or airbox drain fitted. As the Alisport solution does not have a moisture separator or airbox drain this could also cause moisture / water ingress during heavy rain.

The solution is to fit an RAI / snorkel with a cyclonic filter at the top.

So something to think on and ask Alisport about

13th Oct 2023 2:02pm

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 720

camelman wrote:

Click image to enlarge

Thank you.

13th Oct 2023 2:42pm

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 720

Ianh wrote:
So if the graphs are correct, then technically you can get circa 38BHP more, however that’s at circa 4200 revs ! And that’s not where you would be changing gear . So a bit of unnecessary over marketing in my view.

Why would you not be changing gear at the top of the rev range?

Ianh wrote:

Where you are more likely to change gear , especially in 1st to second and second to 3rd is 2500 - 2700 revs, and the difference here looks to be circa 5-8 BHP. From the graph that seams to be where the most torque is as well, which bears out when you would do those gear changes.

HP = torque x rpm / 5252

If you want power, then you generally need revs. That is just the way it works. If you don't rev an engine already, then power mods are unlikely to help at all by and large. As nearly all modding moves the curve to the right as a rule.

Ianh wrote:

It is not anything like getting a map, or gaining 38BHP and lots more torque where it’s needed , but you will feel the improvement even on a standard map.

38hp is a MASSIVE gain, in percentage and raw numbers. Esp considering the amount of power the engine makes standard.

13th Oct 2023 2:46pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1997

Worth a read https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic32669-15.html especially the post by Pete at Bell auto services.

bell-auto-services wrote:
Its worth as a try to change up gears workng out once changed and the clutch is out so the revs land about 500-600 ish rpm lower than the peak torque area.

In the picture I attach peak is shown 2370rpm so Id personally aim to change up gear arround 3000-3200 rpm probabally sometimes a little more so the revs land on the next up gear at arround 1800-2000 ish rpm.

Notice the rev hang rpm is 2000-2200 ??? if you can land gears on up shift in a simlar rpm range to this you are working with the rev hang design and not against it which may help overall driavbility and drivetrain shunt/clunking.

changing up at a to low rpm does ive personally found cause drivability problems.

Ill try and get a video of mine for comparison when it comes back off the dyno. Im now on my 4th 2,2 and dont really have a problem with clunking or rev hangging apart from on one of them where the rear prop flange was loose on the diff.

BR
Pete

Click image to enlarge

This is for a mapped setup, I find that with my standard map but with the nuggetstuff box and nakatanenga air intake pipe on normal use on a flat road I change at circa 2700rpm which lands on 2nd or 3rd gear at circa 2000- 2200 rpm, so close to the peak torque point and in the rev hang sweet spot Pete highlights. Note before I fitted the airbox and pipe I changed at circa 3k revs , but now find circa 2700 to do the same with the new setup including the BAS intercooler.Given the Alisport is very similar in design I expect a similar result.

That’s why I, and I expect most 2.4 / 2.2 puma owners don’t shift at 4200 revs or anywhere near it in normal driving.

13th Oct 2023 4:44pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1624

Anyone running the td5 air box? Is it worth the money?

13th Oct 2023 9:25pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

No but I do really really want it...

16th Oct 2023 10:37am

BaronDefenders

Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 896

2004 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Santorini Black

NickMc wrote:
Anyone running the td5 air box? Is it worth the money?

I have one on my 90. It’s a stunning bit of kit, but not cheap. It has an ITG filter and there is definitely an increase in the intake NVH. I had it fitted at the same time as a VNT, so I can’t really gauge how much of a difference it has made on its own. It’s just looks nice if nothing else.

Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders

16th Oct 2023 11:27am

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Ah ha... What's the intake diameter Baron? It doesn't say in the blurb.

16th Oct 2023 11:55am

BaronDefenders

Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 896

I have a feeling it’s the same size as the factory airbox, however I have a silicone adapter so I can run 4” pipework to the wing. Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders

16th Oct 2023 12:39pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Interesting. I would have thought they'd have increased the diameter a bit. Thanks Baron.

16th Oct 2023 12:42pm

BaronDefenders

Member Since: 28 Jun 2019
Location: London/Cotswolds
Posts: 896

I expect they’ve tried to make an application for the widest market. Charlie

1949 Series 1 80 (SOLD)
2002 Td5 90 (SOLD)
2008 Freelander 2 (SOLD)

1958 Series 2 88 Pastel Green (2019 LR Legends Best Restored)
1983 V8 110 Limestone (Previously owned by Tom Sheppard MBE)
2004 Td5 90 Santorini Black (Td5INSIDE Powered & Rebuilt by CSK)
2012 Puma 110 Zermatt Silver (Overlanding Build)

Instagram: @BaronDefenders

16th Oct 2023 12:45pm

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