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Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3250

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

I’m not disputing your findings, I found them very interesting. However my setup with a larger diameter hose and more direct routing definitely improves airflow. I think that’s the version you should have gone for and if I were you I’d give Allisport a call to see if they’d swap it over. Also as I’ve mentioned before using your recording method you would get a better picture taking live values throughout the rev range and cross referencing with temps, turbo activity etc to ensure parity. However if you really want to accurately measure restrictions on all the different components you need to use something specific for the task. I have used a magnehelic gauge in the past. With that you can measure flow before and after every potential restriction on each component. I’ve just had a look for mine in the garage, without success, but if I do find it I’m happy to post it to you for you to have a go. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

12th Sep 2024 7:50pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

Zed wrote:
I echo Blackwolf. I’ve had both Nuggetstuff and Allisport setups and they definitely make a noticeable improvement. I also have a brand new Nakatanenga optimised air intake system for sale on here if anyone wants. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic92179.html It’s this one: https://www.sp-4x4.com/product_p/oaitd4-rhd-va-pb.htm
.

what the internal sizes of that wing intake rectangle please? or CSA. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

12th Sep 2024 7:52pm

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3250

I’m not sure but I can have look for you tomorrow. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

12th Sep 2024 8:01pm

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 497

Zed wrote:
I’m not disputing your findings, I found them very interesting. However my setup with a larger diameter hose and more direct routing definitely improves airflow. I think that’s the version you should have gone for and if I were you I’d give Allisport a call to see if they’d swap it over. Also as I’ve mentioned before using your recording method you would get a better picture taking live values throughout the rev range and cross referencing with temps, turbo activity etc to ensure parity. However if you really want to accurately measure restrictions on all the different components you need to use something specific for the task. I have used a magnehelic gauge in the past. With that you can measure flow before and after every potential restriction on each component. I’ve just had a look for mine in the garage, without success, but if I do find it I’m happy to post it to you for you to have a go.

Thanks for the offer of the gauge ..it's appreciated, but I honestly don't see that it is necessary..the maf sensor is providing reliable readings( their plausibility has been confirmed with a scope and by calculation)
It's taken months to get to where I am and even though the theory of using the gauge may be simple enough I imagine it's in practice not so straight fwd with access points having to be created wherever on the system you need to connect it to..
The scope work is the same...the theory is great , but it can be difficult to gain access to where you need to connect☹️ and I suspect that's why it's not more commonly used..ie it's time consuming and a right pain 😀
Anyway I digress..
The reason for choosing this model of air box that I have, is that my upper wing space is occupied by a large vacuum tank, so the standard trunking route is my best option..
When I ordered it that was advertised as been supplied with 90mm hose, but they re jigged things and supplied it with slightly smaller trunking and an adapter to suit..
At this stage it's worth pointing out again that I've proved that my raised air intake and ducting which is the smaller diam hose are not a factor in my reduced mass air flow figures..certainly no meaningful reduction takes place because of them.. that is confirmed by simply disconnecting the hose at the inlet to the airbox..it can not get less restrictive than that..the mass air flow figures do not change to any real extent when you reconnect that pipework...so that only leaves the air box...and when that is swapped out for the original the difference to air flow is substantial and immediately noticeable, and repeatable.. and back to what i know was achievable before i installed the new system..there is no grey area in my mind and none that anyone has been able explain or convince me otherwise..the alloy air box is simply not as efficient as the standard offering in my set up..

If you had readings from your experiments with the magnehelic gauge or your mass air flow readings for that matter I would be interested.. not just from you but anyone else that has fitted these upgrades..what are your typical readings for mass air flow and volumetric efficiency in particular if you monitor them..

13th Sep 2024 6:27am

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 497

Zed..a point I forgot to mention..
I did contact alisport with my findings at the start when the fitting of their system caused a reduction in maf figures..
I got a polite reply...firstly stating that they made no claims of any increase in performance but rather their system was mainly to address the loose fitting push fit plastic ducting of the standard set up and ensure a sealed system..any benefit in performance was however welcome and possibly expected as found in their testing on their vehicle..
Went on to get rather vague about my vehicle even though appearing to run well may have some underlying issue that could account for my findings..
They also mentioned the maf sensor location may be a contributing factor..
How I'm not quite sure if the system was designed properly and the bore of the pipe it's installed in is similar..which it is..
I just accepted their reply and decided to press on with my own investigations...👍

13th Sep 2024 7:29am

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

Zed wrote:
I’m not sure but I can have look for you tomorrow.

thank you Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

13th Sep 2024 10:14am

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3250

jst wrote:
Zed wrote:
I echo Blackwolf. I’ve had both Nuggetstuff and Allisport setups and they definitely make a noticeable improvement. I also have a brand new Nakatanenga optimised air intake system for sale on here if anyone wants. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic92179.html It’s this one: https://www.sp-4x4.com/product_p/oaitd4-rhd-va-pb.htm
.

what the internal sizes of that wing intake rectangle please? or CSA.

The wingtop vent has a fixing for the hose which I think is 3.5” or perhaps 90mm as it’s German. The included snow cowl goes over the top, or you buy the matching RAI like Blackwolf’s. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

17th Sep 2024 4:24pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

But what's the actual wing top rectangular csa for the dnow cowl.Want to compare to nugget one and compare those to 90 and 100mm pipe. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

17th Sep 2024 4:56pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

Alisport airbox has been on a while now and have driven in some torrential rain for several hours at a time. For what ever reason none in the airbox.

Haven't been wading yet! Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

17th Sep 2024 4:59pm

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3250

jst wrote:
But what's the actual wing top rectangular csa for the dnow cowl.Want to compare to nugget one and compare those to 90 and 100mm pipe.

It would be quite hard to measure the opening, presumably that’s what you mean? Plus it’s all still in its wrapping. You are more than welcome to pop over and measure yourself though. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

17th Sep 2024 5:39pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20287

Does anyone have a link to the part in JST’s second post here:
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic46581.html

I’m guessing these are bespoke? D44 have rebuilt their web site now and Jake isn’t there any more as far as I’m aware.

That’s the kind of part I’m looking for one day, just to take back fro the wing to the factory airbox.
The Nugget one is similar but of course not available now. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️

17th Sep 2024 7:33pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

Ok, no worries. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

17th Sep 2024 7:33pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

custom90 wrote:

The Nugget one is similar but of course not available now.

I have a new boxed unfitted nugget side box.thing. the bit that goes inside the wing. Would need a pipe. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

17th Sep 2024 7:36pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

Here it is

Click image to enlarge Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

18th Sep 2024 7:04pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

Click image to enlarge
Also have a spare air box to pipe fitting.

Click image to enlarge Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

18th Sep 2024 7:04pm

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