 | Home > A-Plan Insurance > A PLAN Insurance....sorry lack of insurance |
 
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1060   
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Man you guys are getting a raw deal in the UK. When I lived there the premiums were reasonable, but already then I felt the insurance payouts were weird with what seem to be a default 'whip lash' pay off of 10k almost the norm. Hardly sustainable. I think in the UK, apart from apparent rampant, theft, the claims are getting out of hand (fraudulent etc). Your cars are typically much cheaper and the driving style in the UK is considered one of best in the world and medical cost typically covered by the NHS (unlike say the USA, where cost can escalate much faster)
In France we still have some real Mutuelle (insurance societies) - insurance for the people. I pay Euro 900 a year fully comp for a Defender, Disco 4, BMW and a Peugeot, which includes my 22 year old son building up NCB... Most cars here are dented (Paris) and no-one gives a toss. |
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3rd Aug 2023 12:29pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3500  
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Most UK residents would never be able to compare premiums from other countries. That’s interesting to know.
It makes me wonder what American’s (and possibly Canadian’s although I have no idea what they pay for fuel!) who travel to the UK must think when they pick a hire car up at the airport and go to fill up. Let’s hope they budgeted well 
I was once questioned by an American why we had TV licences. It was such an alien concept, like we would need a licence for a microwave or a kettle as well  |
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3rd Aug 2023 1:52pm |
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| Norfolk-n-chance Member Since: 01 Sep 2019 Location: Usually in the garage! Posts: 80 
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I spoke to A Plan (Thatcham) yesterday, as always they were helpful and professional.
My current insurance runs out on 11th September but we’ll be on holiday so I want to get it sorted now. My current insurer is KPM who are a specialist apparently, covering classic cars, boats etc. however, they have refused to cover the Defender. Paul (A Plan) told me that a lot of their insurers are refusing to cover Defenders or any Land Rover model from 2014 onwards. Apparently , in London alone, for every 4 cars stolen, 3 of them are Land Rover models…. But, he did give me a quote from AXA for £320 plus their arrangement fee off £55. So not as bad as I thought. I’m still going to call Flux and see what they’ve got, although I’m not very impressed with them so far, I spent time to fill in their quote form, which then said “we need to call you” then I got an email asking me to call them! I don’t like to feel like I have to work to give you my business……  “a committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing, but as a group decide nothing can be done.” |
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16th Aug 2023 7:06am |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 826  
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Curious why 2014 onwards? Assuming that’s when they’re linking it to keyless entry? 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.
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16th Aug 2023 7:15am |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2639  
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Most likely because Pumas are donor vehicles for let’s say 25 year old Defenders going to certain markets, that once through customs are then torn apart then rebuilt with bigger engines, auto boxes, leather interiors and lo and behold, the Puma look to finish the job.
Annoyingly some of these companies have ex-pats at the helm…… |
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16th Aug 2023 4:05pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3500
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This really does look like it is a JLR problem for building vehicles which are either so easy to steal and / or so easy to disassemble and sell on.
But not just a JLR problem I have said on here a few times, at the old LRO show in Peterborough, it was really very difficult to understand how all of the auto jumble / second hand bits were from items removed legally from vehicles that were life expired or insurance right offs by legitimate companies. Defenders were produced in relatively small numbers throughout the years compared to most vehicles. I'm sorry to tar all these traders with the same brush as I am sure that some were very genuine and sourced their parts responsibly, but I would hazard a guess that a lot of it did come from stolen vehicles, even if the actual person selling hadn't done the stealing and dismantling. If I wanted second hand bits, I would go to a registered breaker (where the costs would be considerably more) or I would buy parts from someone, say on here, where you could see the vehicle the parts had been removed from and that had been taken off for the right reasons. And the auto jumble was crawled over by many. Business was brisk and you could see people leaving the show ground with armfuls of parts. I am more than sure many parts being sold on Ebay will be from stolen vehicles also. I can't justify what I have just written as I have no proof, but most written off Defenders that I have seen are usually totalled. Most owners would re-build if there was just minimum damage. For example, a Defender that has rolled, will not have too many salvageable body parts on it. And now we are finding our Defenders are becoming difficult to insure? Should that be a surprise? I actually don't blame the insurers for their reluctance to insure. I'm sorry if the above is unpalatable to some, and this will not be accepted by many, but our chickens appear to have come home to roost and we (as a collective) are partly to blame. This is something I feel very passionately about as normal pillars of society seem to turn a blind eye for the sake of getting cheap parts. I am sorry. Rant over  |
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16th Aug 2023 9:41pm |
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| A-Plan Insurance Site Sponsor Member Since: 30 Oct 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 344
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"This really does look like it is a JLR problem for building vehicles which are either so easy to steal and / or so easy to disassemble and sell on."
Unfortunately yes, when theft does happen these vehicles are stripped and gone very, very quickly. With little chance of recovery they have become a huge red flag to insurers. I appreciate all the comments here so thank you for your understanding, as a broker are hands are tied by what rules become part of individual insurer criteria. Hopefully it will change in future but for now its 2013 and under that we remain competitive on, and modified for off-roading is still a plus with our panel 
Carlie Howden Insurance - Specialist Vehicle Call us on 01635 874646 for a quotation |
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6th Sep 2023 10:06am |
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| Gal Dove Member Since: 22 Jan 2022 Location: South Wales Posts: 70
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Such a shame that some (seem to be) getting others tarred with the same brush due to their apparent 'relaxed' attitude towards their Defender's security - which consequently significantly increases the chances of their car being stollen.
I noticed a 2014 Defender parked at a mainline railway station the other day. Visually, the car had no steering wheel lock/disc, etc and had just been parked up - presumably by a commuter. It struck me how vulnerable that car looked and I wondered whether it would still be there on my return journey. I often see posts on FB about Defenders that have been nicked, what they never say is whether the car had any after market security measures fitted - specifically visual ones, and specifically things like Safe-T Pedal and a steering wheel lock, etc. I use both, and also have an after market immobiliser fitted with a hidden switch. I'm not suggesting that this makes my car 100% secure, but it will certainly slow any potential thief down and they're VERY visual - I've even covered the Safe-T Pedal and steering wheel lock in reflective tape! My point is that it seems that some Defender owners are either seemingly oblivious to the risks of their car being stollen - or they just aren't bothered, which is annoying, frankly. As such, I think that it would be more helpful if some insurers could get more of a 'feel' for the car owners and their attitudes to such risks, their recent/past history & claims, where they live, etc - rather than simply taking out the big hammer putting a stop to anything with JLR written on it. I fully appreciate that this might lead to winners and losers but a deeper assessment of an individual's 'risk' has to be a more measured approach, surely? Having said that, there hasn't been much of that in the last couple of years, eh?! "Just shut it down boys!"  |
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13th Sep 2023 2:06pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6605 
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2014-2016 Defender owners are actually all being hammered by the fact that 2014-on *keyless* LR and RR vehicles are being stolen in huge numbers.
The fact that the classic Defender is NOT keyless isn't being factored in by underwriters, all LR products are being refused cover or the premium hiked.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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13th Sep 2023 2:11pm |
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| Gal Dove Member Since: 22 Jan 2022 Location: South Wales Posts: 70
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Agreed. Makes you wonder what people must be paying to insure a new full-fat RR these days!
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13th Sep 2023 2:21pm |
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| A-Plan Insurance Site Sponsor Member Since: 30 Oct 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 344
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Pre 2014 and classic defenders are still ok to insure if modified for off-roading or show an enthusiast risk profile (something insurers do look at which is mentioned in the above comment). The standard ones, which are more likely to be like the ones seen left with minimal security at a train station as exampled by Gal Dove are the one's that are becoming hard to insure. Because specialist insurers know if you're putting money into modifying your car or minimal mileage because its mostly used at shows and events - you're more likely to look after it and not treat it as a standard commuter vehicle. " I think that it would be more helpful if some insurers could get more of a 'feel' for the car owners and their attitudes to such risks, their recent/past history & claims, where they live, etc " This is exactly what they have been doing - but unfortunately the theft claims stats speak for themselves and they can't keep paying out more than they're taking in premiums or they just wouldn't survive - so the answer is for those insurers with higher loss ratios is to revaluate what they can/can't insure. Carlie Howden Insurance - Specialist Vehicle Call us on 01635 874646 for a quotation |
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13th Sep 2023 2:50pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2639
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Many FF’s will, no doubt, be insured under a fleet policy linked to a business policy.
Ever wondered why some of the LR companies of old would show off a heavily modified vehicle that had its number plate and was road legal, it’s on the business fleet policy. On those policies all the insurer wants to know is the type of vehicle and the age groups of those likely to drive it with restrictions for younger drivers. Modifications was never a question asked in my day. |
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13th Sep 2023 2:56pm |
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| Gal Dove Member Since: 22 Jan 2022 Location: South Wales Posts: 70
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Ok, so to be clear - are we saying that some insurers (eg. A Plan) are refusing to cover (for example) a 2015 Defender because it's be modified - or that they're just refusing to cover Defenders, full stop...?
And that they'd cover the same 2015 Defender if it were just stock? Only querying this as Direct Line have just turned me down for my 2014 Utility (stock) and my 2016 90 (also stock). |
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13th Sep 2023 3:03pm |
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| A-Plan Insurance Site Sponsor Member Since: 30 Oct 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 344
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Aplan is not an insurer its a broker, but insurers including 'some' of our panel are refusing 2014 and newer JLR models due to the rates of thefts.
Modifications are not an issue, if anything they are preferred with our specialist panel as it makes them more specialist. The standard ones are harder to insure. But in general 2014 and newer are the biggest theft risk in the UK and insurers are understandably dubious about insuring them. Howden Insurance - Specialist Vehicle Call us on 01635 874646 for a quotation |
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13th Sep 2023 3:10pm |
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