 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Total loss of drive.....ah well |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17450   
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This is what my front diff looked like after it seized:-
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Notice how "unround" the pin hole in the carrier is, the pin had clearly been rotating in the carrier for a long time before it finally came out and allowed the diff gears to lock. |
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13th Jan 2017 12:41pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105  
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No 4wheeler, you've definitely not missed anything, well spotted even though my pictures were pretty poor quality.
Yes the hole for the pin to pass through was ovoid, and the mechanic did say the diff was probably a gradual failure over time. Your pictures clearly show how the pin has been shifting around in there, thanks blackwolf, mine looks almost identical to you failure. The past week has been a bit hectic, but sitting back now with a bit of time on my hands having breakfast on a Saturday morning, I think it was just an unfortunate set of occurrences that all seemed to happen at once. The diff had probably been on it's way out for awhile, and just decided enough was enough on the dealers driveway. As for my initial failure, total loss of drive, well it would've been great to see the old clutch. After speaking to the mechanic and the service assistant, I think the service assistant neglected to tell those that mattered that I required the old clutch. It wasn't a matter of covering something up, I guess it's so easy to blame the apprentice, the service assistant just forgot to tell anyone, even though I did ask on two separate occasions Just like he forgot to call me before they started stripping the front axle. When I was arguing the point in regards to paying the $560 to reassemble, I got to speak to the manager of the service department, he asked the assistant if I was called at the initial stage where they suspected diff issues. The answer was no, to which he replied "then we can't expect the customer to pay". |
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13th Jan 2017 8:32pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Ok, so just a very quick update , still not on the road yet, but the parts were ordered yesterday. Everything will be replaced with Ashcrofts. ATB centre, HD crown wheel and pinion (3.5 ratio), HD axles, HD CV's and HD drive flanges.
I did look at diff pegging as well, but after speaking to Dave last weekend, I came to the decision that it would probably be overkill for what I use my vehicle for, plus with all the upgrades, the front axle should be strong enough. Now to save the pennies for a rear ATB, and the LT230 ATB diff. Hopefully, depending on customs holding up the usually pretty quick postage from the UK, I could possibly be back on the road in a week or so. |
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19th Jan 2017 10:17am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17450
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Good choise, and exactly what I have in my front axle. I have never regretted the upgrade.
I was particularly impressed with the ATBs on an occasion not long after fitting when I was reversing up a steep muddy track alongside a friend's field and slipped to a standstill. When I looked, all four wheels were rotating at exactly the same speed, which clearly could not have happened with open diffs. |
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19th Jan 2017 11:56am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Well it's been awhile, but my front diff is now back together. I know I said possibly a week or so, but the delay in shipping was due to the Ashcroft parts, along with many others, being held by customs after they discovered a heap of drugs in farm machinery a couple of weeks ago.
I had a call from Pickards Auto on Thursday to say the Defender was up and running and that they were very happy with the quality of the Ashcroft parts. However on taking the vehicle for a test drive they discovered an unusual vibration from the engine between 2500-3000rpm. They've never experienced this vibration in any other Puma Defender they've worked on. They wanted me to come for a drive, which I did today, and the vibration is definatley there. It wasn't present before the loss of drive a month or so ago now. They've checked the driveline, engine mounts, ball joints, swivels etc etc etc. It's even had a proper front end alignement. But it seems to be clutch / engine related. It doesn't happen all the time just at the above mentioned rev range. So it's back to Melbourne City Land Rover we go, I will call them tomorrow and try to organise a technician to take it for a drive. I guess in the dealers defence, they never really had a chance to road test the clutch they fitted. The front diff decided to let go before they hit the road. I know they're going to try to dodge the bullet and look elsewhere for the vibration, but Pickards have checked everything else and it certainly looks like the clutch is the issue. So tomorrow I pick her up, then let the fun and games begin.......will keep you posted. |
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3rd Mar 2017 10:45am |
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| nickhodgson Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Zambia Posts: 174 
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It just seems so unlikely that the clutch and front diff failed at almost the same time. When you put it in diff lock did the diff lock light come on? Is the diff lock working now? To me it seems more likely that the failure was the front diff all along and the garage wrongly diagnosed clutch, changed the clutch and disposed of the old "still good" clutch. Or even the apprentice disposed of the old clutch.
I assume that the people who fitted the new diff and shafts would have removed the front prop and gone for a spin around the block to try and eliminate the new diff or shafts from enquiries into vibration. Not 100% fool proof but would show up something. also think of the shock to the system from a front diff locking up at speed....could that have bent the prop and killed the clutch? I have changed gearbox mountings on a few defenders so would also look there for vibration. What a boring story for you but am now waiting to see what the garage says.... 1995 300tdi Defender 90 P/UP 2011 Puma Defender 130 D/C 2000 300tdi Defender 110 P/UP 2015 Discovery 4 SDV6 HSE |
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3rd Mar 2017 1:48pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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If you go back and read from the start, my front diff was ok at the time of the total loss of drive.
Usually when a diff lets go it complains first. There was no noise, just loss of drive. The diff decided to self destruct when Landrover tried to take it for a drive to test the clutch. If you look at the photos, you'll see how ovalised the hole for the pin in the centre had become. My front diff had been on the way out for awhile, and just decided enough was enough on the dealers driveway. My diff lock works fine, as I drove my Defender up onto the back of my trailer with the centre out of the front diff and front prop shaft removed. Front prop is fine. The vibration is only between 2500-3000 rpm. It's not there all the time. If it was all the time, then yes gearbox and engine mounts would be the first place to look. Pickards Auto have been great, they are an independant that specialise in rebuilding, restoring, and servicing MG's, Jags, Rovers and Land Rovers. They also build race cars, and were very happy with the quality of the Ashcrofts gear. The backlash that was in my driveline prior to the failure is all but gone now. They seem to think that when the dealer reinstalled the gearbox they damaged the clutch in some way. Obviously they don't want to drop the box at this stage. That work should be covered by the dealers warranty. They have never come across a Defender with a vibration like this before. One of the mechanics also owns a couple.  |
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3rd Mar 2017 6:47pm |
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| YOLO110 Member Since: 14 Feb 2015 Location: Perth Oz and Stansted UK Posts: 1645
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As this is RPM related, have they checked and 'spun up' on a balance machine, the forward propshaft mate? Perhaps when the from diff failed, the propshaft was subjected to a torque that may have slightly bent it..
 YOLO... You Only Live Once... |
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4th Mar 2017 2:04am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Thanks Yolo110, never thought of that, they said the diff lock up happened as they were idling up the driveway, but I guess the prop could possibly be slightly bent. I'll look into it.
Well this arvo, I finally drove it home from Pickards. The backlash in the driveline is totally gone, and except for the vibration, which is also there at idle, it's great to drive. Pickards put it back on the hoist on Friday, after my drive with the mechanic, to try to isolate the vibration. It was then they discovered that my transfer case is now leaking, not only that but the dealer forgot to plug in my park brake light loom, and they left this little part sitting in the footwell on the passenger side. 
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge I was going to ask here if anyone knew where it was supposed to be fitted, but i think I've found the answer here; http://cat.lrparts.ru/1235_037765296.jpeg Looks like it's a support bracket for the high/low range lever.(Number 2) Would the lack of this support bracket be causing the vibration? After inspecting the leaking transfer case on arriving home, the leak is pretty bad, it's dripping on the driveway. I'll take some photo's tomorrow when the light's better. I've decided to call them on Monday and book it in to try to get them to rectify the issues they've caused. The transfer case wasn't leaking before it went into Landrover, and neither was the vibration there. So lets hope they come to the party and sort it without trying to charge me. I'll be so happy when this whole saga is behind me, and I can venture of road again. Ah well one step at a time |
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4th Mar 2017 10:58am |
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| Balvaig Member Since: 19 Feb 2016 Location: Fife Posts: 732  
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If the vibration is there at idle then I would suspect the clutch or flywheel as the cause.
You are having a bad time - I hope you soon get it fixed. Don't let it spoil your enjoyment of the Defender.  |
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4th Mar 2017 11:04am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Thanks for that, I've always enjoyed my Defender's. It may sound a little strange, but when I slid underneath to check out the leaking transfer case, I felt a welcoming feeling, as if a long lost friend had returned............maybe I need help  |
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4th Mar 2017 11:21am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Click image to enlarge This is the leak I now have. I didn't get a chance to take a photo until this evening, the kids had Kendo grading all afternoon. I spoke to a couple of people today, and it looks like the bracket is more of a cover for the wiring on the gearbox, rather than a support. But it still needs refitting. |
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5th Mar 2017 9:51am |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1786  
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looks like they've caught the transfer box seal on the output shaft on reassembly - I think they're 12mm threads so pieces of all thread about 10" long keep everything square and centralised on reassembly.
Good luck! Keith |
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5th Mar 2017 12:56pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Ok, today I called the dealer, and actually got the same service assistant that I dealt with all the way back in January.
I explained the situation, and was infomed that they are flat out and can't look at it until the 24th of this month. I explained how I now have a vibration from the clutch area, that wasn't there prior to the work done by them. The transfer case is now leaking and they neglected to refit a support bracket on the gearbox. He said in regards to the bracket that "mistakes happen, but I find it highly unlikely that the clutch has been damaged during fitment or fitted incorrectly, as there's really not much involved in fitting one." I didn't realise that service assistants are also fully fledged mechanics now. As for the transfer case, well they'll have to investigate before jumping to conclusions. He also enquired as to the front diff, which I told him was fine, and had been professionally set up by another workshop. The same workshop that on test driving my Defender this week, discovered the oil leak/ vibration, and missing part. I also read out the report that Pickards made. Now I have two options as far as I see it. Firstly I wait until the 24th, then hope that MCLR do the right thing and rectify the issues with no addtional cost to me. I've heard from others that they are pretty good at honouring warranty issues. But, from the workmanship I've seen will they just try to dodge the issue with the clutch, and just use the age old excuse that it's a "Defender thing!". The transfer case is definatley down to them as the vehicle has only done 20 or so km's since refitment. They might drop the gearbox, say there's no issue, then bill me for the hours spent on it. It's certainly not in their own interest to find issues with their own poor workmanship. The second option is to let Pickards do the work, their attention to detail, and customer skills are excellent. Let them fix the leaking transfer case, and if they find the clutch damaged due to poor fitment, then ask Melbourne City Landrover to honour their own warranty and provide a replacement clutch at no cost. The only problem is, that it's been hinted that if any one else works on it then the clutch warranty is void. One part of me wants to wash my hands of the dealer, and just walk away. But they should be held responsible if it's found that they caused these issues. Maybe I should try Consumer Affairs, see what they have to say. |
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6th Mar 2017 10:18am |
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