 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Total loss of drive.....ah well |
 
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105   
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Ok, it's been a few days, but I now have an update of sorts.
My clutch is cactus, total failure, causing loss of drive, apparently. I'm going in to see the dealer tomorrow. They want to inspect the output shaft splines, but don't have the tool to remove the collar. They say they don't want to bolt everything back together, and then still find no drive, then have to unbolt it all again at my cost. A dealer trying to save me money, now there's a first. Having said that, I have nothing but praise for Melbourne City Land Rover, communication has been great and I've been kept in the loop during the whole process. I have asked them to replace the clutch master cylinder, whilst it's all in bits, but they seem determined to inspect the splines on the shaft. I've spoken to Dave Ashcroft, on a couple of occasions now, and he's been very helpful. He basically said that if the collar is tight, and not leaking, then tell the dealer to leave it alone. especially since it's only done 7,000k's since fitment. I do have a question though for anyone who has fitted one, would it be possible to remove it with a filter strap wrench? The dealer said they were thinking of trying that method, just wondering if it would work. I have been on the local forum here, asking if anyone in Melbourne has the tool, but at this stage no luck. I called a couple of indie workshops, one said they just bin the tools after fitting the kit  , the other actually said they used the filter strap, so I guess it could work.
On another note, in regards to the clutch, which according to the dealer, has not been replaced until now,(it's done 96,000k's). This dealer used to service the vehicle when the previous owner had it. Is it possible for the clutch to fail like this, with very little warning? The springs have rattled ever since I bought it, but nowhere near as much as some of the members vehicles on both this forum and AULRO, and it hadn't gotten any worse in the time I've owned it. |
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10th Jan 2017 10:30am |
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| Froglaise Member Since: 24 Sep 2016 Location: left forum Posts: 212 |
Yes, perfectly possible for a clutch to go out what seems suddenly like that.
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10th Jan 2017 11:37am |
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| xtr2turbo Member Since: 30 Apr 2016 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 71  
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In the last couple of months one of the Landy mags had an article on fitting the Ashcroft shaft with detailed photos. I should still have a copy somewhere. Might help?
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10th Jan 2017 11:53am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Yeah, I've got the copy LRO International, August edition, thanks for that you just reminded me. I will bring it with me tomorrow.
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10th Jan 2017 12:05pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17489 
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Any chance of photos of the failed clutch? It would be interesting to see exactly what the failure mechanism was.
I am glad, but not in the least bit surprised, to hear that the problem wasn't the Ashcroft shaft! |
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10th Jan 2017 2:13pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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I did ask them not to bin the old clutch, so hopefully I'll be able to bring it home with me.
Maybe I'll get it mounted and put it on the mantle piece, that way I can justify the cost to my better half.....  |
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10th Jan 2017 8:02pm |
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| Gonarezhou Member Since: 08 Mar 2015 Location: White River Posts: 178  
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Nahhh at 96 000 km (depending on the conditions of use) a clutch is likely to depart to the land of "happy clutches". But like the previous post I really would like to see how your clutch failed! It seems that like the output shaft, clutches either last forever or fail dramatically. My dealership had four failed output shafts in December - all of them on 90's ??? It makes no sense at all! However, just to keep us all happy the following is from a friend who just completed a trip in his Toyota Prado and posted the following on Facebook when asked about the vehicle..... "It had a few hickups but we solved them. I found out about some Toyota bad engineering. Brake inspection clamps that come off on bumpy roads, reverse light switches which when shorted take out all the electronics etc. Fixed all those. Then this morning after getting us home on Saturday night, it refused to start. So some issues but good luck and making a plan got us home." ..... It would seem that our Toyota friends are just like us
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10th Jan 2017 8:51pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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There's words I wish to use at the moment, but I'd probably be censored.
Well the clutch is all back together and working fine, there's nothing wrong with the output shaft, but here's the kicker. My front diff is stuffed, the center has failed. They took it for a drive to test the clutch, and the front diff started making horrible noises. Now when I lost drive last week there was no noise, and no warning. When I changed the diff oil last September, it was clear and there was very little swarf on the magnetic drain plugs I fitted ages ago. None of the offroading done recently has been extreme, as I've been on my own and with the kids, no serious wheel spin or shock loading, didn't realise how weak these two pin diffs are, when not set up properly from factory. So anyhow they now want to charge me $4700 for a new centre, axles and sundries . New genuine centre is $735 and the axles are $1500 each. As far as I'm aware from 2007 till 2010 the 110's had the two pin rover diff on the front, after 2010 Land Rover realised that this was a weak point and went to four pins in the front diff. Anyway there's no way I'm going down the Genuine road, not for it to fail again. Ashcrofts it is, well under half the price for a pegged ATB centre with HD axles. I was going to purchase eventually, in fact I was waiting for the front diff to fail. Just didn't expect it to happen all in one week. Long term plans are for an ATB in the rear, and one in the transfer case. Don't suppose anyone here knows how quick the Ashcrofts express postage is to Australia? Just trying to convince The Minister of Finance that this is the way to go, looks like the no5 trailer I was looking at purchasing will have to wait awhile. It's gone from a couple of years of trouble free motoring, to all this, ah well when it rains it pours. Like i said at the beginning of this thread, at least it happened where the vehicle was easily accessible. Going in to look at the damage tomorrow. Couldn't get there today as work was busy, and it was the last day to get vehicles off the wharf. __________________ |
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11th Jan 2017 7:14am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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Good to hear you have got to the bottom of it, and very pleased to hear that the Ashcroft shaft is off the hook! I can understand your grief at the costs.
As Iīm sure it has occured to you, alot of time (and some expense) would have been saved if you had tried to regain drive by locking the centre diff. You would at least have located the issue. Whether continuing your journey would have been wise, is another matter. Destroying the axle/diff housing would just have made things even more expensive. Thanks for sharing.  1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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11th Jan 2017 7:31am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Thanks for your support, I think I did mention at the start of the thread, that when I lost drive, the first thing i tried was locking the center diff, but no joy.
The dealer said that when they took it for a drive to test the clutch operation, the front diff failed. Usually when a diff lets go, from my experience, there's noise. There was none when i lost drive last week |
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11th Jan 2017 7:43am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17489
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I've been where you are with the front diff, and feel your pain!
The single pin or 2 gear original diff is woefully inadequate even on a road-going-only vehicle and I fear that it is a matter of 'when'. rather than 'if', it will fail. When I sorted mine out, the complete set of Ashcroft parts for the front axle, so fully-built ATB with housing and HD pinion and crownheel, pinion , halfshafts, CVs, and flanges were still cheaper than an exchange diff from Landrover! 
It was very interesting driving the last five or so miles home after it failed with a completely locked front diff, the steering was 'difficult'! Fortunately the roads were extremely wet and a litttle slippery. |
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11th Jan 2017 8:21am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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I've been thinking about it some more, the front diff failure that is. I was a little distracted with work and a visit to the dentist this arvo, when I received the call from the dealer today.
I've also just spoken to Dave Ashcroft, and like me he finds it highly unlikely the clutch and diff have let go all at the same time. A diff just doesn't let go without protesting. Their words were, " we took it for a drive and the front diff was making noises, your diff needs replacing" then they started talking half shafts as well. How do they know it's the front diff? and what has failed? Dave asked if I had given authorisation for the disassembly of the diff, which I had not. So how do they know what's failed exactly? My thinking now is to go in tomorrow and ask to see the vehicle, take photo's and if the front axle is still together then ask to remove the front prop, pay my bill and leave in 2wd. I need a second opinion, as Dave recommended, he says he's seen so many miss diagnosis over the years, not just from dealers but independents as well. If however the front axle is in pieces then I can see an argument brewing, and if It can't be driven in 2wd then the problem is elsewhere. |
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11th Jan 2017 9:13am |
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| Gonarezhou Member Since: 08 Mar 2015 Location: White River Posts: 178
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This sounds very odd ..... If you locked the centre diff then the rear diff will engage even though the front has failed. |
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11th Jan 2017 9:26am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17489
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Bear in mind that if the cross-pin in the front diff has failed catastophically, which is the usual failure mechanism, then removing the front propshaft may not help. If the pin has failed, it is highly likely that the diff either is, or is about to become, locked solid so although the wheels go round you will have no differential action and hence no steering. it is quite scarey when it happens.
If it is noisy but working, then it sounds as though the dealer is trying it on a bit and there may well be nothing wrong. |
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11th Jan 2017 10:44am |
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