 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Total loss of drive.....ah well |
 
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324  
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At the time the OP tried locking the centre diff, his clutch had also failed so he still wouldn't have had any drive.
Blackwolfs' comment relates to the current position with a new clutch but noisy front diff. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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11th Jan 2017 10:58am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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I too, had misunderstood ozy013īs explanation, thinking that the clutch was actually ok, and the loss of drive only caused by the front diff.
 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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11th Jan 2017 11:12am |
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| Froglaise Member Since: 24 Sep 2016 Location: left forum Posts: 212 |
Does seem to read that way, but if the clutch did go then it's quite a coincidence that the diff has at exactly the same time without any noise at all. Seems fishy to me....
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11th Jan 2017 11:23am |
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| Gonarezhou Member Since: 08 Mar 2015 Location: White River Posts: 178  
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Ahhh this time you beat me to it!
Would for me be a very big conspiracy theory! Clutch and diff at exactly the same time? Must be the Russians? |
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11th Jan 2017 1:43pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105  
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What a day!!!
Went in this morning to inspect the diff, and check out the clutch they removed. The clutch, which I asked to be put in the back of the Defender once removed, had been put in the bin by the apprentice yesterday, which had been conveniently picked up by the scrap truck early this morning. The diff had let go, but after speaking to the mechanic, he told me he was turning out of the driveway onto the road when the front diff started to bind then went crunch. They drained the oil, which had metal fragments contained within, the magnetic diff plugs had swarf all over them, and there was an indentation in the axle casing. One of the pins had sheared in half, sending one of the sun gears into the crown wheel, taking some chunks of crown wheel in the process then I guess it put the dent in the casing. The photo's don't show the damage to the crown wheel. I told them I was going to put it on my truck and take it elsewhere, and I was not paying the $560 they wanted to reassemble the front end. Wheels, brakes, swivels, half shafts and center were all out. I asked why I wasn't called when they heard the noise, found fragments in the oil, and noticed the dent in the casing? So In the end I paid for the clutch, master cylinder and labour, but not the strip down or rebuild of the front end. I basically paid the price quoted before the diff failed. My work let me use my truck and trailer, I transport trucks and cars around Victoria. The front prop was left off as were the half shafts, I drove her on, with the center diff locked, strapped her down, and now she sits at Pickards Automotive in Abbotsford. Whatever needs replacing will be done so with Ashcrofts. The photo's were taken with my phone so not great. the first one shows the dent in the casing just above the fill plug, sorry the light wasn't great. The ones of the trucks just show what I do day in day out to earn a crust. Maybe I should post it in the what we all do for a job thread  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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12th Jan 2017 10:29am |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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12th Jan 2017 10:35am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17450 
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I don't want to be pedantic but there is, or rather was, only one "pin" in your diff. I don't know how the terms "2-pin" and "4-pin" came about for LR diffs, but they are erroneous, inappropriate, and very misleading. There are diffs with two differential gears mounted on a single cross pin; these can only be "2-gear" or "single pin" diffs. This is the kind you had, but which for some mysterious reason many people call "two pin" diffs! There are diffs with four differential gears mounted on either two cross pins or a cruciform pin assembly; these are "four gear" or "two pin" diffs, though many people mysteriously call them "four pin" diffs. Anyway, lesson over. The dent in your casing will have been caused by the loose cross-pin hitting it as the pin was ejected from the diff carrier. The usual failure mode for these diffs seems to be that the cross-pin comes loose in the carrier and starts to work its way out of the carrier. In some cases, the moment one end of the pin comes out of the housing, the diff will lock and break up, containing most of the fragments (this is what heppened to me), but in many cases the pin comes out far enough to hit the axle casing and then snaps, as happened to you. This tends to scatter the fragments further and cause more colateral damage to crownwheel, pinion, and pinion bearings. I have never seen one of these diffs fail as a result of anything other than the cross-pin working its way out of the diff carrier, ie, I have never seen one where the pin has failed before it has moved. It seems that the main weakness with these recent diffs is the inadequacy of the mechanism to secure the sross-pin in the diff carrier. Earlier (ie Series) diffs did not usually fail in this way. By the way, I do like your recovery truck, that is really making a statement! Good luck with the repair! Ashcroft ATB is the way to go.[/u] |
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12th Jan 2017 12:28pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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Ozy13, nice pics. Your 110 is a very light truck in comparison to the semis youīre used to!
So let me get this straight. They repaired the clutch, refitted the transfer box, and connected everything up...and then lunched the differential on a test drive. 
Did someone forget to connect up the diff lock indicator switch, and drive off with the diff lock (still) engaged? Can fully understand your decision to pick the truck up rather than sending good money after bad.  1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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12th Jan 2017 12:56pm |
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| shaggydog Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 3347 
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Your job is cooler than my job and I want to be doing your job soon
Glad your mischief is being managed Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197
Self confessed mileage hunter  |
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12th Jan 2017 1:00pm |
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| ozy013 Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 105
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Thanks blackwolf for the lesson, it's good to know.
Shaggydog my jobs not bad when the suns out and its 30c plus, but when it's raining, well that's another story. Trucks and cars tend to want to skip sideways as you drive up the deck. The trucks get the adrenaline going, as you generally have to take a good run up, wet or dry, to get them up. The larger ones aren't too bad as they have weight in the rear. It's the smaller trucks and those with lazy axles that gets the blood pumping. Anyway I'm happier now my Defender is in a better place |
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12th Jan 2017 6:02pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3785 
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Blackwolf, for a "mechanically hopeless" person like me, that is a really informative post. Congrats on having that level of understanding. Thanks, Pickles. |
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12th Jan 2017 9:08pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 917 
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For the sake of education I can add my witnessed diff failures to the list blackwolf stated.
Planet gear friction welding itself to the crosspin and snapping it in three. Planet gear semi welded itself on one end and causes the cross pin to spin, that in turn ovalised the carrier hole to the tune of 1/2 inch free play. (That's why excessive and prolonged wheelspin is bad kids) Mostly crownwheel deflection on the pinion has claimed a few diffs in the pile (my brother now has pegged diffs) and a friend has completely blown one to bits and the autopsy was inconclusive as everything was smashed gears, pins and cracked the carrier. Off the top of my head I can't remember the changeover but there was a date / VIN where the crosspin retainer was changed from a Circlip to the Small rollpin. The issue lays that when the planet gear used to seize on one end and spin the cross pin on a circlip type that would cause the carrier hole wear (which happened to me). But with the roll pin to keep the crosspin fixed It would snap and allow the crosspin to move and as above it wiggles out then hits something which mostly snaps it. I have seem rare cases of investigating partial lockup or clocking noise to find either a partial snapped crosspin or it partway out. All in all rover diffs are rather fragile and don't tolerate abuse due to their design, From my experience wheel spin and the fast moving planetary gears causes a lack of oil between them and the pin thus the heat and friction welds which snap the pin, Having pulled a few diffs during maintenance, the planet gears were found to be hard to turn on the crosspin and starting to bind up even if hard or excessive work hadn't been experienced. And I'll just add that i'm not a massive diff wrecker you just see a lot in 14 odd years of competitive off-road motorsport. Hopefully you get your woe's sorted soon ozy013 it's not fun being mucked about like that. |
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12th Jan 2017 10:58pm |
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| MadTom Member Since: 10 Sep 2013 Location: Olomouc Posts: 625  
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My experience with broken Rover diff from 2016 summer - Def 110 TD5 with worn winter tyres. On of the crown wheel screws lost his head. This bit piece of metal was chewed by the gear rings, broke some tooth of them, broke another heads off, damaged the diff body flange and finally destroyed bearings. Source of this is probably previous lack of maintenance - there were lot of old gunky oil rests inside of the axle.
Repair was easy - complete strip of the axle - removing the end parts with CV joints and halfshafts in all, removing the diff body, cleaning the inside of axle and picking the metal parts with strong magnet. Replacing whole diff body with another one. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "BlufÃnek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo  |
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13th Jan 2017 8:00am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17450
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Interesting post, Devon-Rover, thank you!
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13th Jan 2017 8:40am |
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