 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Another output shaft..... |
 
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641   
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that's good to hear I have an Ashcroft one waiting to be fitted DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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1st Mar 2020 9:06pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414  
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Had been monitoring oil levels in transfer box and gear box (latter using a cable tie through filler as a make shift dip stick), and concluded that the oil leak between transfer box and gbox is actually coming from the gearbox.
So this week took the gearbox out, thinking that I only need to replace the rear oil seal, and will be done with it. To my horror, I found that the splines on the output shaft female coupling, mating with the gbox main shaft have quite some wear  Interesting enough is that the splines that normally wear are still intact and good as new. Not sure on exact mileage, as the 90 is a recent acquisition, but my guesstimate is about 40kmiles on this output shaft. Seems to me that all wear happened since fitting an upgraded output shaft, as 2 of the splines on the gbox mainshaft are intact.
Have contacted Aschroft, but it is also new for them. One possibility could have been a loose nut that fixes the coupling to the mainshaft. Although I do not think the nut was still torqued to 180Nm, I still needed to put the gearbox on 1st gear and use a short breaker bar to loosen. And I thought that those splines should be an interference fit. In my case the coupling almost fell out once the bolt was undone. Anyway, Have ordered some parts now. Have only done quick check to the adapter housing, all dowel fits are ok, and all preset. Will be checking some coplanarity, and will try to figure how to check centers between the MT82 and the LT230. If anyone has some tricks up their sleeves, would be glad to hear.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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26th Jun 2020 9:02pm |
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| Gloucesternige Member Since: 17 Jan 2020 Location: In the garage Posts: 114 
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Wow!! Never seen that before!!
I have done a video on stripping the ‘box on my You Tube channel if it’s any help.... Nige Check out my You Tube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/Defender90KeswickNigelsLandRoverchannel |
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26th Jun 2020 9:08pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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Hi Nige,
I am thinking of taking a gamble and leave the mainshaft alone. Really do not like to strip the gearbox. I do not put a lot of miles on it, so probably it will last a few years. And what I could find, MT82 mainshaft is not cheap. Seeing that my older 90 LT77 serviced me for 30 years with the undrilled transfer box input gear, I am fingers crossed that the Puma gearbox will last as long. Or maybe I am asking too much on the new alloys? View of the LT77 mainshaft after 30 years of service.. maybe my sympathetic driving style, or just lucky. Click image to enlarge 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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26th Jun 2020 9:29pm |
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| Gloucesternige Member Since: 17 Jan 2020 Location: In the garage Posts: 114
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Hi Dinnu.
If you are going to reuse that shaft I would suggest a good coating of Loctite 638 on the splines. I have always found this stuff to be amazing at filling gaps!! I think LR used it on the Puma driveshaft flange splines instead of the felt washer... probably also to allow bigger tolerance between fit of flanges to pinions.. read cheaper!! Just my 2p worth. Nige Check out my You Tube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/Defender90KeswickNigelsLandRoverchannel |
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26th Jun 2020 9:44pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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Hi Nige,
Thanks for the advice. I was toying with the idea of applying loctite. Have also found 660... still 600 series. I also found some companies that do epoxies, claiming that they repair worn splines. But when I look at their datasheet, I see that the compressive strength of these polymers are something like 1/3 that of aluminium. I cannot even imagine how aluminium would fair on such a loaded component. Do you think I would have problems if I just leave the mainshaft alone? Maybe the gaps will let more oil through, preventing fretting  . I am still replacing the female coupling, LR030054, Ascroft modified, as the rest of the kit is still good. The Defender did not have any particular heavy clunks, I just took it apart because I was afraid that the gbox oil level would eventually become too low and cause damage. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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26th Jun 2020 10:01pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641
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I would also have said locktite on the splines but unfortunately with the ashcroft kit you have the oil supply running down one of the splines.
I also dont think it was torqued properly in the first place. I would be inclined to refit with new adaptor and torque the bolt correctly with locktite on the bolt but not the splines and then see what happens DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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27th Jun 2020 5:26am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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It seems to me that the previous owner installed the bolt with grease rather than a thread locker.
What I will do then is to fit new adapter, I have already marked the 2 splines on the gbox output which are still intact, and fit the new adapter with the eroded splines on the same location, so as not to over stress those 2 splines. At this moment, I only have Loctite 222, and 638 at the garage. I find 638 too strong for this application, I hope 222 will do the job, and the bolt can be undone without a fight if need to replace the mainshaft at a later stage. If a loose bolt was the cause of the issue, then I wonder how the new LOF shaft would fair, because I do not see how that can be fixed to the gbox mainshaft. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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27th Jun 2020 6:25am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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Just a quick account on my re assembly. Firstly, a huge difference in play when I slide the new female coupling on the gearbox main shaft. Clearly also a difference if I slide the coupling in a way that it goes over the 2 undamaged mainshaft splines or if I align the missing 2 splines on the coupling to the undamaged 2 splines of the main shaft. I opted to install according to the latter position. Applies a smear of grease to the mainshaft, of course gear oil should come to the splines relatively quick. Bolt smeared with loctite and torques to 180Nm or 133lbft. Output shaft assembled with greased splines so there is lube until oil gets to it as well.
Unfortunately found a few stripped threads, so those are getting helicoil, had to buy a nice assortment, M8, M10 and M12! Had not yet done helicoiling the transfer case.. but I am hoping everything goes back in without more trouble. Owe, and I have already faced the transfer case front output flange as it had a few dings in it for some reason. Everything is getting new seals, O rings etc.. hopefully it stops marking its territory every where I go. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Jul 2020 5:28am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2638  
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gents, what's the latest on an upgraded output shaft?
Ashcroft still the one to go for, or is there another kit that's a bit kinder on the wallet? thanks -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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19th Sep 2020 10:25am |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1402 
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Ashcroft's is the only one that lubricates the splines.
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19th Sep 2020 2:10pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2638
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Thanks.
Someone else pointed me to the LOF one, it looks like a great mod, as it's a one-piece unit. https://lofclutches.com/shop/clutches/clut...nder-tdci/ But looks like they're out of stock and not getting any soon... -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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19th Sep 2020 2:31pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1402
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and it doesn't lubricate the splines...
It will be interesting to see how the LOF part works out long term. Any replacement option needs to prove it will last longer than the original shaft did. Last edited by DSC-off on 19th Sep 2020 2:51pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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19th Sep 2020 2:43pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2638
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Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't a one-piece unit negate the need for lubrication?
I'm not mechanically-inclined, so I have no idea what the optimal solution is. -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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19th Sep 2020 2:47pm |
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