 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft failure, Forum Survey |
 
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| Greadh Member Since: 17 Feb 2016 Location: North West Posts: 97   
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1, 2013
2, 2.2 3, N - changed as precaution 4, 32k - changed as precaution 5, N - Standard 6, still running |
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27th Feb 2019 3:09pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110  
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1, vehicle year of manufacture: 2007
2, engine type 2.4 or 2.2: 2.4 3, is the Defender still running with the original output shaft? (Y/N): Yes 4, vehicle milage at first shaft failure, or current milage on the original shaft if still running: 280.000 km Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"  Click image to enlarge |
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27th Feb 2019 6:38pm |
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| R1200GS Member Since: 12 Jul 2015 Location: Hampshire Posts: 265 
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1.2016
2. 2.2 3. N 4. 16588 Just failed today, Ashcroft kit just ordered. |
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23rd Mar 2019 3:30pm |
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| Pete_110 Member Since: 07 Dec 2013 Location: Great Southern Land Posts: 8  
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1. 2013
2. 2.2 3. N 4. 59K Adapter shaft changed out with the Ashcroft model as a precaution. Cog teeth on original not lubricated, were covered in rust, 'triangled' and at half height. Estimated 3-5K km life left. Also swapped out centre diff for an Ashcroft ATB. Backlash 99 % gone 👍 Note: when my Local LR Dealership swapped out the gearbox at 23K km (U/S syncro on 2nd gear) they categorically stated they lubricated the stub shaft, as they had the kit.... what a load of bull ! (Slight rant over lol ) Cheers, Pete |
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23rd Mar 2019 10:46pm |
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| Mbala Member Since: 22 Jun 2013 Location: Limpopo - Mbala Private Camp Posts: 4  
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1. 2011
2. 2.4 3. N 4. Shaft didn't fail I replaced it with an Ashcroft kit as a precaution when the clutch was done at 171k 5. Yes 6. Current mileage 172 |
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24th Mar 2019 3:22pm |
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| Mike_E Member Since: 13 Apr 2017 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 161 
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1. 2015
2. 2.2 3. N 4. Replaced under warranty at 42k miles. Pretty sloppy. 5. OEM past fitted unfortunately (LR warranty) 6. No.. only only done 300miles so far but drives much better |
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27th Mar 2019 5:45am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Time for an update: 1. 2013 2. 2.2 3. N 4. 46k 5. Y 6. N/A I had the output shaft changed today following investigations for a clunk at the rear. It's made a big difference to how it drives, taking out a lot of the jerkiness at low speeds and clonks when coming on and off the gas. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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16th Apr 2019 9:11pm |
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| Dasher Member Since: 12 Nov 2012 Location: Nottingham Posts: 30
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1 2010
2 2.4 3 No 4 51,000 5 Replacement full gearbox under warranty (35.5 months). No Ashcroft Parts. 6 No idea where it is now, sold at 65,000. The 'box was replaced following a clutch replacement (springs - warranty). I think that it was output shaft but can't be certain. The fault was picked up on test driving the replacement clutch. Generally on road use and light offroad use. Towed a caravan approx 4,000 miles per year. 1 2015 2 2.2 3 Y 4 38,000 5 NA 6 NA Usage as above. I've got the 'van with me at the moment, 200 miles into the Lake District - no obvious slop or knock on take up of drive. Drivetrain has been noisy from new - now on its third rear diff. Seems to have sorted it (for now). |
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23rd Apr 2019 7:53pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579 
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1 2014
2 2.2 3 Yes 4 75k 5 Ashcroft 6 All good at 110k Used for all jobs. Towing, off roading has mud tyres fitted. |
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27th May 2019 4:19pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1400 
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Time for an update of the results, prompted by talk on other threads.
Failure rate by Year. - as expected late models, 2013 to 2016 are showing more failures as they reach more miles. Starting to catch up with the mid years.
Miles at failure. -2.2 models are failing early, typically 10K to 55K miles. Even 2015/16 year with "blue paste" lubricant. -2014 is standing out, with only 2 failures, both above 60K miles. -2.4 models typically fail 25k to 90k miles, or continue much further. Click image to enlarge Still running chart. -no late models yet showing high miles on the original shaft. Click image to enlarge Repeat failures. Evidence continues to show, repeat failures with a standard shaft at similar miles. - the shaft isn't to blame, this shows they are consistent over a period of time. There is another factor peculiar to the vehicle that is causing the problem. Case 1, 25,000 and again at 57,000 Case 2, 23,000 and again at 56,000 Case 3, 13,000 again at 25,000 and again at 41,000 Case 4, 25,000 again at 60,000 and again at 90,000 Case 5, 30.000 , 50.000 and 70.000 Case 6, total 80,000 miles 3 failures, average 27,000 miles for each shaft (not included in the survey) |
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31st May 2019 9:37pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 480  
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"the shaft isn't to blame" - I'm just wondering, if the Ashcroft shafts fail alike.
Don't be so sure of that |
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31st May 2019 9:56pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298  
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could it be the adapter shaft casing putting the transfer and gear box out of alignment?
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1st Jun 2019 7:55am |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1400
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Hi all,
The original aim of this survey was to understand the extent of the problem, to help people make a decision when repairing a vehicle or predict when a failure was most likely to happen. With the help of everyone that took part, we have done that. The worrying ‘noise’ and rumours on forums, in the magazines and between friends can be replaced with some established statistics. Things we have proven: 1) The problem existed in every year of production from 2007 to 2016. It was never fixed. 2) Of the people that responded to the survey, 48% have had a failure or changed the shaft due to wear concerns. 3) Failure rates by year and mileage, as in the charts above. 4) Repeat failures at similar miles. 5) Under ideal conditions the original shaft can last for high miles. 14% of replies said it did more than 100,000 miles, in 1 case 240,000. I’m satisfied with this, we never set out to prove where the problem is and how to fix it permanently. JLR certainly didn’t achieve any more than this with all of their time, money and resources. The Ashcroft Transmissions kit remains the only commercially available alternative to original parts. While we haven’t proven anything about that kit, they have an impressive claim that out 2300 sold, they have had none returned for spline wear. The general consensus of opinion seems to be, there is an alignment problem in the driveline causing the wear and failure. This would be very expensive to investigate and is something we will never get to the bottom of. Before discussing alignment theories and why we can’t prove where it originates, we should be happy with what we have achieved over the last year. Thanks to all that took time to respond. |
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2nd Jun 2019 4:03pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1400
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“the shaft isn’t to blame” – to explain my reasoning for this statement, the shaft will last >100,000 miles in favourable conditions (14% of survey replies). It has also proven to be remarkably consistent over a period of 6 to 8 years, multiple failures at consistent miles. Therefore, it should be consistently capable of >100,000 miles in good conditions. If the shaft fails at less than that, the problem originates elsewhere. The failure is caused by another component, or, it’s a failure in the design of the system to take into account all possibilities. This brings us back to alignment, if the system has to cope with misalignment, it should have been designed with a flexible or lubricated joint. Only time will tell if a lubricated joint fixes the problem 100%. |
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2nd Jun 2019 4:05pm |
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