 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft failure, Forum Survey |
 
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665   
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1, vehicle year of manufacture
2011 2, engine type 2.4 or 2.2 2.4 3, is the Defender still running with the original output shaft? (Y/N) Yes - original 4, vehicle milage at first shaft failure, or current milage on the original shaft if still running. 40000 miles - still OK Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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18th Jul 2018 8:25am |
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| macfrank Member Since: 05 Nov 2015 Location: somewhere in the north Posts: 1061  
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splendid! 
Here's mine, although we haven't done a lot of miles so far: 1. 2015 2. 2.2 3. yes 4. 14k miles |
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18th Jul 2018 6:11pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1394 
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It's taken a while to sort out some errors, but I'm now confident the figures quoted below are accurate for our survey combined with the blacklandy.eu survey.
I'll look into patterns of failure and report on anything that stands out. 2.2 models do seem to have a higher failure rate and at lower miles than 2.4's. That should be the other way round, bearing in mind the age of them. 2.4 (2007 to 2011) 42% failed or changed. Average mileage at first failure or change, 56,091 miles. 2.2 (2012 to 2016) 49% failed or changed. Average mileage at first failure or change, 35,818 miles.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Last edited by DSC-off on 20th Jul 2018 2:20pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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19th Jul 2018 10:08pm |
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| BenB8man Member Since: 22 Mar 2017 Location: Norfolk Posts: 429 
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Brilliant work yet damning figures. My 8 year old BMW has recently had a few recalls sent through for less serious things. I wonder what it would take for land rover to offer compensation for the inevitable early failure. Maybe a death?
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20th Jul 2018 7:51am |
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| pux146 Member Since: 30 Apr 2018 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 121
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1, 2007
2, 2.4 3, yes 4. 35000 miles 2007 2.4 90 fettled & remapped. |
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20th Jul 2018 8:20am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6295  
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to have such a significant number failing at 25k miles is nothing short of carp. good work.
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20th Jul 2018 8:49am |
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| apt100 Member Since: 05 Mar 2015 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1547 
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^^^ yes, and guess who is on 23k with a few weeks warranty left.
I haven't had chance to look through the responses yet to see if there is a pattern of later vs earlier within the broader 2.2 category. I am fairly sure mine had the "blue goo" so I don't know whether has been shown to help or not. |
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20th Jul 2018 5:02pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1394
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^^^ Yes it's been sobering, going through the figures knowing I'm at 18,000 miles.
A few interesting things that have come out: Repeated failures We only have figures for 4 vehicles with repeated failure, but they all follow the same pattern. If a standard shaft is fitted they seem to fail again at similar miles. Case 1, 25,000 and again at 57,000 Case 2, 23,000 and again at 56,000 Case 3, 13,000 again at 25,000 and again at 41,000 Case 4, 25,000 again at 60,000 and again at 90,000 update Case5, 30.000 , 50.000 and 70.000 Other transmission issues Many reported failures also noted problems with clutch, main gearbox or transfer box. Problems elsewhere seem to affect how long the shaft will last. Failure rate by year While at first glance the 2.2 seems to be worse than the 2.4, it gradually gets worse from 2007 to 2010 year. The next few years are fairly consistent up to 2012. After that I suspect the vehicles are too new to have reached the miles when the problem occurs. Early failures are reported for 2013 & 2015, so it doesn't look like there is much change.
Click image to enlarge Ashcroft shafts I was disappointed with the level of info coming back on these, the limited info we got proves nothing. Five Ashcroft shafts reported to be still running at 5.000 , 4.000 , 6.000 , 14,000 and 7.000 miles. update 1 OK at 25.000 While there's no proof from our survey that they do last longer, surely they can't be worse than the standard part. In the hope they do last longer I will be fitting one when the time comes. I hope this survey has helped with understanding the extent of the problem. Good luck to all. 
Jason Last edited by DSC-off on 21st Jul 2018 8:35am. Edited 2 times in total |
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20th Jul 2018 6:17pm |
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| apt100 Member Since: 05 Mar 2015 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1547
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Thanks Jason
Personally I think the 4 repeat failures are probably most significant. Unless they have been very unlucky, it would point more to a systematic problem with the vehicle (such as blackwolf's theory of misalignment) rather than just random batches of poor quality shafts? |
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20th Jul 2018 6:59pm |
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| Fifth Horseman Member Since: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 322 
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Just seen the survey - two vehicles to add, the second one with multiple failures.
1-2007 2-2.4 3-Y 4-80k Miles when sold 1-2010 2-2.4 3-N 4- Suspect first shaft ~30k Miles (just before I bought it) Failed again @ 50k Miles Failed yet again @ 70k miles - Ashcroft kit fitted Sold at 95k miles with no further problems |
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20th Jul 2018 8:54pm |
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| CarlinAbz Member Since: 15 Sep 2013 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 76 
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2013
2.2 N Failed at 23k (last week) |
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21st Jul 2018 4:02pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 463 
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Jason, your survey is great I've searched the web for 2 weeks before I bought my Ashcroft kit. Nothing to find. I suppose Ashcroft started selling the kits in 2015. Let's wait and see ... |
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21st Jul 2018 4:05pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 463
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Systematic problem with driver or use of vehicle also possible ... |
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21st Jul 2018 4:34pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6295
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at circa 25k my 2nd shaft was fitted along with a new gearbox so either very unlucky or the mis-alignment issue possibly doesn't hold much water at the shaft failed again at about 60k
what I have more recently found out is the transfer wasn't operating as it should and was regularly locking up even though diff lock light wasn't coming on nor was lever moved over to engage diff lock. for me this is an area worth investigating. could others have been experiencing something similar? I can only assuming this was also the contributing factor for me having to replace bushes at about 30-50k miles and had un even tread wear? |
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21st Jul 2018 6:10pm |
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