 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > New Defender production |
 
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324  
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There's a lot more to installing air bags than just bolting them in where there is space. The Defender bulkhead is wholly unsuitable as it's so flimsily secured compared to more modern designs. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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2nd Mar 2017 12:03pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Well, given that it was the stated reason for the withdrawal of the Defender from the States, I'm reasonably confident that it was considered impractical.
The construction of a Wrangler body is very different to a Defender, with a lot more steel and welded joints, so it was probably either rigid enough as is, or was easy enough to reinforce. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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2nd Mar 2017 2:12pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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Lack of airbags, etc. are not the real reason for the demise of the Defender. It became just a too costly truck to produce. When I visited Solihull end 2015, if I remember well, the production line had about 4 or 5 old style robots, borrowed from a former FL or Disco model line, and what looked like several hundreds of people to churn out around 80 or 100 trucks only per day. Not sustainable, JLR just had enough of it all.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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2nd Mar 2017 4:12pm |
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| Stacey007 Member Since: 25 Sep 2015 Location: Cheshire Posts: 3776
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Mercedes managed to keep the G Glass going.... Its still imho always the best car at the Geneva show... (the Brabus ones)
OLD 
NEW Click image to enlarge From this.... (my dad had an early 280GE 
to this Click image to enlarge Given the sales of these I guess it must have been worth making them with airbags and normal dashboards etc but you certainly here you don't see them very often |
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2nd Mar 2017 4:30pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Eric, thanks. I always want to see the economics of stuff like that. If you said £25k per vehicle (sold to dealer), then that's a turnover of £2.25 million pounds a day! If you say that they work on a profit margin of 5% then that's a profit of £112,500 a day - £41 million a year.
Ineos have looked into it, and think it's do-able. |
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2nd Mar 2017 4:30pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17507 
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I think that you've possibly overestimated the profit margin on the Defender.
I have heard, and it is entirely plausible, that the ex-works unit cost of Defender was higher than any other model in the JLR line-up, so it cost more to build a Defender than a top-spec FFRR. If true, or even if vaguely believable, the huge margins on the robot-built vehicles makes them far more attractive. You can shift orders of magnitude more vehicles at orders of magnitude greater margins. Since the company exists to make money for its shareholders and not to supply us cranky Defender owners with an indefinite supply of archaic vehicles (sad, but true) we shouldn't be at all surprised that the Defender as we know it has gone. Al this talk of the company destrying its heritage is immaterial - financially the comapny is probab;y better off without Defender, and certainly without hand-made Defender. It has no trouble selling as many of the Disco/RR familay as it can make. I think that there will be anew vehicle with a Defender tag, but I seriously doubt it will be anything like the old one, it simply doesn't make sense to build one any more. The real Defender replacement (as opposed to the New Defender) is probably the Toyota Hilux. |
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2nd Mar 2017 4:59pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Point taken. This was an interesting article (similar to Eric's last week):
https://www.autovistaintelligence.com/blog...es-at-home Seems like J is ok, but LR is dragging it down. The article states JLR's reliance on Chinese sales (eggs - basket). I hope LR knows what it's doing by bringing out very similar models. Even I'm struggling to tell the difference between them now. Spoke to a bloke at a dealer a few weeks ago after he passed me in his 'Evoque'. "It isn't" he says, "It's a Discovery!". |
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2nd Mar 2017 5:44pm |
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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605 
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They're great - but can you even buy one for less than £90k now? https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews |
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2nd Mar 2017 6:27pm |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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I agree that profit expectations of the LR company discontinued the defender, not EU emission standards and safety issues. But supposed they are not making money with our defender, wouldnt a 10-20% price increase have given them the profit they wanted? Prices would have been around 40k then and this is what people give for a 2-3 years old preowned defender now. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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3rd Mar 2017 8:16am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17507
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It is only the discontinuation which has driven the prices to those levels. If the vehicle was still in production, nobody but nobody in their right mind would pay £40k plus for a standard Defender, especially with its questionable reliability and build quality.
When you factor in the fleet purchases (which I suspect still formed the major proportion of sales) which would be lost, I don't think that that is a viable business model. I rather doubt that even £40k per unit would deliver other-model margins. If the suggestion that a Defender costs as much or more than an FFRR to build, it would need to be a similar price. £100k for a standard Defender? |
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3rd Mar 2017 8:24am |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260
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I am affraid the defender image changed during the last 2-3 production years, it went pop, LR had defenders for, correct me if I am wrong, £60-70k and they sold well. I am not happy my car is worth £40k or more, because I have to watch where I park now. Hope new defender will be here soon and people forget about the boxy, undrivable old one. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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3rd Mar 2017 8:51am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17507
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I completely agree!
The cult status that Defender gained in the last few years, after its demise had been announced, has caused many problems, at least for the tradition buyers, including: - the artificially high price has fuelled the theft wave to new levels, - the buyers are in the main those whose expectations of the model are based upon conventional SUV/luxury car standards, and who do not understand that leaks, rattles, noises, notchy gearchanges, draughts, shocking build quality, etc., etc., are all normal for Defenders. I am not excusing these characteristics, but they were/are a fact of life due to the design and build of the vehicle. The price you pay for the world's most versatile 4x4. Many of the complaints I read on this forum are about aspects of ownership that I, as a traditional Land-Rover owner of some 40 years, don't even notice. The traditional Land-Rover, later the Defender, is not, was not, and was never intended to be an SUV, it is a utility 4x4. I suspect the new one will be an SUV, and probably a very good one, but I doubt you'll be able to fit a cherry-picker to one. |
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3rd Mar 2017 9:45am |
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| Darcy Fairfax Member Since: 05 Oct 2014 Location: London Posts: 721  
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^^
 |
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3rd Mar 2017 9:49am |
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| Balvaig Member Since: 19 Feb 2016 Location: Fife Posts: 732  
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Well said Blackwolf.
The Defender is a car to be driven and looked after in the traditional way. It was the last mainstream production vehicle to be nearly all hand built. Few cars left that can be tinkered with/ modified as easily. I doubt that Landrover made any money on the car and the accountants run big business now. Hopefully the interest in our cars from speculative owners will die down soon and we can get on with enjoying what we have. |
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3rd Mar 2017 9:58am |
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