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| sgilmour Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Essex Posts: 232   
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They've not made a profit for GM in 18 years, my guess is they wanted to cut their losses and let somebody else bankroll them. The value of JLR will be much greater, they're turning over billions in profit, have done for consecutive years now and are more popular as a global brand than ever. Ford sold them "cheap" in 2009 because they were too expensive to carry as a subsidiary after investing in the XF, F-Type, Disco 3 and Range Rover models that reignited the brand and pushed it to new levels of profit and popularity - look at JLR now. Bad move on Ford's part there, selling before the booming return on investment. Could be the same for Opel/Vauxhall, only time will tell. 1994 Defender 90 300TDi 2002 Disco II ES Td5 Auto (SOLD) 2011 BMW 120d M Sport 2012 Audi A5 Coupe 2.0 TDI (Other halfs) |
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7th Mar 2017 4:01pm |
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| Stuff Member Since: 06 Feb 2017 Location: Between cradle and grave Posts: 41 |
@tyrannosauROSS
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7th Mar 2017 4:12pm |
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| Stuff Member Since: 06 Feb 2017 Location: Between cradle and grave Posts: 41 |
14 Feb 17 trading statement:
http://www.jaguarlandrover.com/news/2017/0...er-revenue # Third Quarter revenue of £6.5bn, up 13% year on year # Retail sales of 149,288 vehicles , up 8.5% led by strong demand for Jaguar F-PACE, Jaguar XF and Land Rover Discovery Sport # Profit before tax of £255 million and positive free cash flow of £54 million after £926 million of investment Total retail sales of 149,288 vehicles, up 8.5% year-on-year, were a record for the third quarter with higher volumes in China, (up 38.4% including sales from the China joint venture), North America (up 19.8%) and Europe (up 7.0%) led by strong sales of Discovery Sport, Jaguar F-PACE and the Jaguar XF (including the new long wheelbase Jaguar XFL in China). Jaguar retailed 45,364 vehicles, up 90.3% as sales of the F-PACE continued to grow and demand for the long wheel base XFL in China increased. Land Rover retailed 103,924 vehicles, down 8.7%, with strong sales of the Discovery Sport more than offset by the run-out of the outgoing Discovery, ahead of the start of sales of the all-new Discovery later in the fourth quarter. Dr Ralf Speth, Jaguar Land Rover Chief Executive Officer, said: “Continuing expansion and innovation in our compelling product range have driven up global revenues and retail unit sales, led by the Jaguar F-PACE, Jaguar XF, and Land Rover Discovery Sport. “Models such as the all-new Discovery mark the latest step in our investment programme, which will underpin long-term profitable, sustainable growth.” Third quarter profit before tax (“PBT”) was £255 million, primarily reflecting the run-out of the Discovery ahead of the new model, unfavourable foreign exchange revaluation, higher marketing expense and depreciation and amortization, partially offset by further recoveries related to the 2015 Tianjin Port explosion. PBT for the first nine months of 2016/17 was £934 million, down slightly from the £980 million in the nine months of the prior year. Free cash flow was positive £54 million in the quarter after £926 million of total investment spending. There's more information on the site and in the annual reports, including investments in new models and factories. ... take a look at the more detailed quarterly presentation: http://c.jcms-api.com/download/7a38dd76-91...nfinal.pdf ... on page 10 a teaser silhouette of a LWB(?) Defender replacement ... When JLR has used this teaser in the past (most recently the D5), the production car has been faithful to the silhouette.  |
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7th Mar 2017 5:51pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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No doubt that Jaguar looks rosey - the demand for the electric Pace should be huge. But LR not so rosey, then:
"Land Rover retailed 103,924 vehicles, down 8.7%". Some of the statements make no sense to me, as they talk of Third Quarter, but then seem to insinuate annual sales. |
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7th Mar 2017 6:51pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3786  
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+3!..I agree with "Ross".
Pickles. |
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7th Mar 2017 9:17pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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Well, if JLR are going to launch a new Defender in one of the coming years, they better include a full electric version in the line up. One of those Swiss Green Party elected numb nuts just launched a proposal for a law banning on country wide level all diesel and all gasoline cars, so no more combustion engines, and only allow full electric cars as of 2025.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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8th Mar 2017 12:19pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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That's what I said back on page 1 of this thread. Diesel is on its way out, and with the speed of the growth of EVs, petrol won't be far behind it. Electric is the future. Norway will be banning all PETROL and DIESEL in just eight years. Don't think that other European countries won't do the same, as well as China and Japan. Which leads me back to my point that the new Defender must surely have a hybrid choice, otherwise it's just a re-worked DC100 - so why has it taken so long?
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8th Mar 2017 1:23pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5038 
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There are loads of massive developments at JLR - engines, electric vehicle line up etc.
Remember, although they have added in the Velar, they have stopped producing the defender, so those sales changes need to factor into the trading figures show...so land rover isnt that bad. There are 2 issues i foresee - the cost of the vehicle line up and the associated taxes and the residual value issue of those vehicles, LR used to be good at creating a solid demand new and 2nd hand -at sale of my last LR, all the dealers suggested there was too much quick UK new supply which isnt helping second hand values The reason the new defender is yet here, in part is the anti's DC100 and development times, but also the fact that there is a programme of vehicle development - they can only do so much at once Mike |
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8th Mar 2017 1:51pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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It's been seven years, Mike. It's a joke. As I said, I was asked to join a critic's forum in London to see pictures of the 'new Defender' - that turned out to be the DC100. When (unfortunately) some people didn't like it, all LR had to do was have a little re-think and adapt it. Now, all these years down the line, what will be their excuse if it is indeed simply a re-hashed DC100 - with petrol/diesel engines and nothing radical and innovative? As I said before, LR's only excuse now is if the new Defender really is innovative and brilliant. But it still isn't much of an excuse, it's simply taking wayyyyyyyyy too long. I want it to be great, I may even buy one, but it better be good! Oh, and I want at least a hybrid.
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8th Mar 2017 3:49pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Flash news (at least to me):
New 2018 Jeep Wrangler (which will obviously be coming out before the new Defender!) to get hybrid power! |
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8th Mar 2017 4:02pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5038
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The new defender is designed
But to say its 7 years in isolation is unfair. The DC100 would have followed after the current defender, but the new one was redesigned from scratch so takes some time and then goes through testing - its only been a year since the defender production stopped and probably a year away from the launch of the next, so 2 years isnt bad. Reserve judgement until you see it...but just know that if your a traditionalist you probably wont like it whatever its like - because it hasnt got leaf springs  Mike |
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8th Mar 2017 5:57pm |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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I guess when time comes and things get serious there will be electric drive kits on the market to upgrade the current defender. This will be definitely cheaper than bying the new one. Untill then i enjoy my diesel
 Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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8th Mar 2017 7:47pm |
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| tyrannosauROSS Member Since: 24 Jun 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 136 
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My two pence again.... or should that be three?
I believe the new defender has taken so long to come out because; The development pictures you saw were exactly that. Development. They come up with and idea mothball it. Get it out again re work it squeeze a bit here, push a bit there. They ended up with the DC100. Reaction wasn't entirely/overwhelmingly positive so it goes back to the drawing board. If feedback was saying no to the 100 inch size to tie in with the rest of the range then Land Rover have to go back and re think. I can almost guarantee that Land Rover have never sold as many defender pickups as they did in the last few years of production. So Land Rover take it back to the board room. Feedback says they need the 90, 110, pickup. Station wagons.  . Complete re think.
This all takes time. I then also think that they want to launch it on a special date. One that is relative to the original Land Rover. So they have to wait for this also. I also think that Land Rover will want to initially build the new defender solely in the UK. Solihull. They only have so much space. So they have to decommission the old defender production line. Build a new state of the art production line for New Defender. This needs to then be commissioned tested and all the bugs ironed out. This takes a huge amount of time. Finally. There hasn't been a car in recent years that has been as highly anticipated that the new defender. This car will define Land Rover again. If it's wrong then they will do huge huge amounts of damage to their brand. They know more than anyone that the new model can't just be on brand. It needs to nail it. It needs to shout we are Land Rover look at my big off road prowess now suck my exhaust! Which leads me to the next bit, (I promise this really is it!). Diesel and petrol are dead technologies. Don't get me wrong. I drive a td5 and I love it. I can do 500+ miles without having to fill up which any other full electric Car cannot. But the oil firms bought all the rights to hydrogen fuel cells years ago and have sat on them for 20 years now. Electric out of a plug to run your car is not practical. If it was. We would all be buying them already! The hydrogen fuel cell is the future and I believe that Europes governments know this. But big oil has them by the balls. Hydrogen can be "easily" integrated to the current logistic network we currently have. Just change the fuel storage tanks under the forecourt and a few pumps and we can continue to use the current fuel network. Big oil then turns into big hydrogen. But until there is an insentive to spend billions of dollars on their conversion big oil won't do so because it's too easy to collect and refine oil. There are far too many of us driving long distances to make the current line up of full electric cars (and lorries. Don't forget the big trucks that make the world go round) to make buying a full electric car worth it. Plus, the rest of the world is still a long way from having a tesla fast charge station every 100m. (Don't forget you cannot push or tow the current generation of electric cars without causing significant damage) By far the largest use of oil we all use day to day is in our cars. If Europe can squeeze big oil then they will very quickly have to chainge their business model. Or die. as soon as this happens I am sure we will see hydrogen fuel cell production accelerate and be adopted and integrated rapidly. I believe Toyota have developed some kind of hydrogen car already and it only takes a few people of the right thinking to make a stand in governments and we will soon see change. The green revolution is enevetable. But in its current form it is already dead. (To excuse a terrible battery joke) Rant over Ross |
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8th Mar 2017 11:41pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5038
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dont forget that the UK power network cant cope with electric cars or much more than it already has on it Mike
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9th Mar 2017 12:25am |
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