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nidge n

Member Since: 04 Feb 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 719

ericvv wrote:
Lack of airbags, etc. are not the real reason for the demise of the Defender. It became just a too costly truck to produce. When I visited Solihull end 2015, if I remember well, the production line had about 4 or 5 old style robots, borrowed from a former FL or Disco model line, and what looked like several hundreds of people to churn out around 80 or 100 trucks only per day. Not sustainable, JLR just had enough of it all.
Eric

Eric is most correct. The margins in the defender were non existent. Especially when you add on the warranty cost. My company does business with LR. It's been mentioned that the cost of building a FFRR is circa 35K . That's healthy. Under the ford ownershio, many arguments took place as ford executives could not understand why it took so long to build a car. But gone it has and for all its faults I'm glad I own a couple of defenders. I really doubt the new one will satisfy our requirements, but I also suspect that it will be highly competent. Please , please make it purposeful and not just another mummy mobile. But seeing how the legacy of the discovery has been unceremoniously discarded for the discovery 5, I can't see the new defender being anything but a life style product that takes the dog on a walk at the weekend.

3rd Mar 2017 8:56pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Agreed, I can't see the D5 doing the Camel Trophy, or anything like it, or the DSport, or the RR, or RREvoque, or RRSport, or RRVelar(!). Somehow, it seems as though the D4 would have been at home. I suppose Land Rover's next trick is the new Evoque - which will be bigger and much more expensive. I'm not in car manufacturing, I'm (underneath) just a plumber. So why do I have this gut feeling that Land Rover are going all wrong? Where is the Mokka-sized 4x4? If they put me in charge, I'd bring the D4 back (slightly changed, but not much), drop all the RRs and the Discos, and just have:
New Defender (hybrid fuel)
Small 'SUV' 4x4 (hybrid fuel)
Evoque
Discovery 4.1 (top of the Disco group would be a sumptuous version)

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

I don't know if that would crash the company, or make it into something huge. That's me finished playing for a Saturday morning.

4th Mar 2017 10:01am

Stuff

Member Since: 06 Feb 2017
Location: Between cradle and grave
Posts: 41

That would crash the company.

Personally, the Evoque leaves me cold but the FFRR and the RRS (I have owned 2 RRS) are superb and the new RRV looks like a masterpiece which will sell like hot cakes. The D3 was a tour de force in functional design and the D4 very successfully executed an up-market shift to broaden its appeal and reposition the brand, to make room for the volume of sales across all ranges, upon which a modern car company depends for survival. The D3/4 was superb off-road (I have owned both) and the D5 will be better albeit, if the RRS1/RRS2 is a guide, its turning circle will be worse (shame about the split tailgate).

I believe the Defender replacement will be amazing, and far better than every generation of the previous vehicle (I have owned a 110 CSW). There will even be room for elbows in the new cabin! Traditionalists will hate it initially.

Best to stay flexible of mind lest the shift from the present internal combustion engines and drive trains to new engines and hybrid drives give rise to apoplexy and aneurysm. Enjoy the future as much as you cherish the past.

4th Mar 2017 2:44pm

diduan

Member Since: 13 Oct 2016
Location: Central Balkan
Posts: 260

I am not buying the new defender, so it doesnt have to apeal to me. The new one will be seen in cities and shopping centers, but despite beeing "extremly capable offroad" only time will tell if it will be accepted from globetrotter and used for expeditions. I just dont know if this guys in South Africa will be willing to replace their current defenders and toyota 76 (with v8 diesel

) against the new defender. And if they dont, this car will loose its authentity, its image will degrade to mamas vehicle and the replacement of the replacement will have to apeal to its core customers - mamas

Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt

4th Mar 2017 3:17pm

Farmerben

Member Since: 16 Jan 2017
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 605

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Keswick Green

While I agree that the new Defender won't be the giant meccano set the old one is, I don't think they will market it to city folk/mums on school run. They have this segment pretty much covered at all price points and introducing another city based SUV is only going to cannibalise sales of their other models (which, whatever anyone says do manage to find their own little niches at different prices).

There is still money to be made in utility vehicles as can be seen from more or less every manufacturer launching a pickup. Whilst many of the higher specced trucks flirt with the sports utility bracket, the base models are what replaced the Defender for many farmers, builders, councils etc. Land Rover's biggest task is to compete in both ability and price.

However, having read the Autocar interview with Gerry McGovern, he doesn't seem to be offering much hope to anyone expecting a faithful update of the old Defender.

Quote:
The Velar is another ‘lifestyle’-focused launch. Why haven’t you shown a new Defender yet?

“You can’t run an industrial powerhouse for the traditionalist. We need to establish a viable industrial and financial footprint before we can create a viable Defender for the future. Once we’re making money, we can afford to invest in a whole new Defender family. We don’t have to be supported by heritage. Our job should always be about looking forward and being relevant in a changing world.”

To me that sounds like "it needs LEDs and buttons and screens and computers and it needs to make us billions otherwise it might as well be a horse".

But time will tell..... https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews

4th Mar 2017 3:49pm

Swac3

Member Since: 21 Feb 2015
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 363

DC100 in its concept art is looking more and more appealing, given the direction of everything else they've put out since.

That said it'll be nothing but a Land Rover badged Jeep wont it really, I think we're all resigned to that.

Ho hum, guess i'll have to keep my 2 on the road and pray that neither get written off in the next 25 years. 3 Landrovers

4th Mar 2017 7:04pm

ericvv

Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

I've watched this Velar launch movie

Until now I never really looked at much of what this Gerry McGovern (obn) has all been advocating, but having seen him speech now, it is clear that this is not a designer with much interest in a real utilities market vehicle.
Now that I watched him present the Velar, I surely don't like his rather pompous and self fullfilled attitude, but one thing is for sure, he does like slender blondes which are a head taller than himself.

Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw

Last edited by ericvv on 5th Mar 2017 5:47am. Edited 3 times in total

4th Mar 2017 9:55pm

Swac3

Member Since: 21 Feb 2015
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 363

Modern, elegant, with a touch of Glamour the new range rover velaaaaaaar. hmm A vehicle to stir the emotions.

Excuse me while I cough ! 3 Landrovers

4th Mar 2017 10:37pm

nidge n

Member Since: 04 Feb 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 719

Farmerben wrote:
While I agree that the new Defender won't be the giant meccano set the old one is, I don't think they will market it to city folk/mums on school run. They have this segment pretty much covered at all price points and introducing another city based SUV is only going to cannibalise sales of their other models (which, whatever anyone says do manage to find their own little niches at different prices).

There is still money to be made in utility vehicles as can be seen from more or less every manufacturer launching a pickup. Whilst many of the higher specced trucks flirt with the sports utility bracket, the base models are what replaced the Defender for many farmers, builders, councils etc. Land Rover's biggest task is to compete in both ability and price.

However, having read the Autocar interview with Gerry McGovern, he doesn't seem to be offering much hope to anyone expecting a faithful update of the old Defender.

Quote:
The Velar is another ‘lifestyle’-focused launch. Why haven’t you shown a new Defender yet?

“You can’t run an industrial powerhouse for the traditionalist. We need to establish a viable industrial and financial footprint before we can create a viable Defender for the future. Once we’re making money, we can afford to invest in a whole new Defender family. We don’t have to be supported by heritage. Our job should always be about looking forward and being relevant in a changing world.”

To me that sounds like "it needs LEDs and buttons and screens and computers and it needs to make us billions otherwise it might as well be a horse".

But time will tell.....

To me that's more like if and not when we build a new defender.

Let's be honest, Gerry I'd not a defender type of guy. He has even intimated that there is room for another Range Rover product. I suspect that would come before they consider starting the defender family.

5th Mar 2017 12:07pm

CR

Member Since: 28 Jan 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 947

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Santorini Black

The NEW Defender will be like and at the level of the current G Wagen.

5th Mar 2017 6:20pm

ericvv

Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

^^ Good, they will call it the Range Rover Defender then. And Dr. Ralph Spetz will price it just under the FFRR then. That's the right spirit for the shareholders.

5th Mar 2017 6:24pm

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4720

Land Rover are pushing the "premium" word with all of the latest models. If they got their act together the new Defender could be a "premium" product without all of the bells and whistles that are integral with the other models. If they got the quality of the components, the performance and the reliability right they could charge a premium price for a premium product, even in basic trim. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

5th Mar 2017 11:03pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

What's the difference between a Discovery 5 and a Range Rover Velar? Apparently the price is the same. Look at the shapes - the designers are locked into one mentality.
http://www.landrover.co.uk/build-your-own/index.html

6th Mar 2017 9:34am

diduan

Member Since: 13 Oct 2016
Location: Central Balkan
Posts: 260

and the answer is... bonnet 1 says land, bonnet 2 says range. this was a simple one

Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt

6th Mar 2017 6:13pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Ok, now for part 2 of the question - a 2-parter in itself:
In 1922, Huddersfield Town beat Preston North End by one goal to nil to win the FA Cup. The match was refereed by Mr JWP Fowler. What did the initial 'W' stand for, and what was the name of Mr Fowler's dog?

6th Mar 2017 6:21pm

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