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B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green

Yes that is interesting as I have a new fuel filter ready to fit and will do this prior to fitting a new VCV as Blackwolf has convinced me that the VCV is easily damaged by water and crud so I want to make sure the new VCV has perfectly clean fuel going in but I will test the engine after fitting (and bleeding if necessary). If no change then it will be a VCV change out. "You are never to old to learn something new"

7th Feb 2017 12:12pm

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

[quote] Yes, although the engine will run after you change the VCV (and probably better than it did before, if the old one was defective) to run properly and efficiently the 'pump relearn' (also known by other names) operation needs to be carried out. ......quote]

That a good call. I'll fit then get the re-learn done at the local for or LR dealer.

cheers,

John. "You are never to old to learn something new"

7th Feb 2017 12:16pm

OleDave

Member Since: 19 Oct 2013
Location: CARDIFF
Posts: 175

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Indus Silver

Hi B4lamb, from what I read in the posts it seems a defo that the suction control valve is the problem like mine, when changed it does have to be matched up with the pump after fitting so a garage with the correct diagnostic equipment is required, have spoken to my garage about it and they say it take minutes, its a simple yes or no on the screen to sync it with the pump, well it was on the expensive Bosch unit he has, its not a job you can do yourself unless you have some good diagnostic equipment. I would also look at a Ford transit 2.4 VCV as they can be identical and a good few sobs cheaper than the £130 you mention, just compare the part numbers on the body before ordering, think I saw one some time back for half the price you mention, they are identical other than they do not have the LR part number on it, I found Ford were very helpful in identifying it.

Hope that helps

Ole Dave

7th Feb 2017 1:17pm

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Bonatti Grey

Oddly enough the valves seem to be more of an issue when fitted in a Defender than anything else?

I've changed 3 on various Defenders, including my own, and only 1 on a Transit and that was only due to a replacement fuel pump, I work on quite a few high mileage transits and they never seem to be an issue?

I wonder if it's anything to do with the way the Defender is mapped? 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

7th Feb 2017 1:27pm

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

I would doubt its due to the defender mapping. You at suggesting the valve is maybe worked harder in a Defender? I would say its more likely the Defender gets more muck and water in the fuel due to its agricultural offroad use. "You are never to old to learn something new"

7th Feb 2017 2:00pm

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

OleDave wrote:
Hi B4lamb, from what I read in the posts it seems a defo that the suction control valve is the problem like mine, when changed it does have to be matched up with the pump after fitting so a garage with the correct diagnostic equipment is required, have spoken to my garage about it and they say it take minutes.......

Thanks OleDave, I'll take a look around for a cheaper price and find a dealer who can do a pump re learn. They are an expensive part if they keep on failing at regular intervals.

Cheers, John "You are never to old to learn something new"

7th Feb 2017 2:07pm

OleDave

Member Since: 19 Oct 2013
Location: CARDIFF
Posts: 175

Hi B4lamb, well it seems from all the posts that its not a case of if it fails its a case of when!!! oddly the same valve is fitted to the ford duratorque 2.4 Transit engine and to be honest I fail to understand why the valve fitted to the defender should fail more than the transit setup, I have myself been deep into the Transit guts many times for many reasons having worked in the auto industry myself and as Ian says and I agree with him its strange, I personally cannot even remember one failing or replacing one on the duratorque setup, although since retiring I have noticed one or two floating around the garage benches when I have gone for a coffee and a dose of garage banter with all the guys at break time, very strange?.

Regards

Ole Dave

7th Feb 2017 2:42pm

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

B4Lamb wrote:
I would doubt its due to the defender mapping. You at suggesting the valve is maybe worked harder in a Defender? I would say its more likely the Defender gets more muck and water in the fuel due to its agricultural offroad use.

Why in a Defender would there be more muck in the fuel?
I don't think it should matter if it's on or off road, the fuel system should stay spotless inside.

Bit different if your pouring out of old containers, plus not every defender is used off road. 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

7th Feb 2017 3:22pm

OleDave

Member Since: 19 Oct 2013
Location: CARDIFF
Posts: 175

Hi Ian to clarify, I agree why there should be more muck or water in the fuel unless the filter has never been changed or unless contaminated fuel used, or your pride and joy has been in some deep water doing a bit of mud plugging.

I still fail to understand why the Defender VCV set up should be any less reliable for the life of me, but facts are facts and they do seem to be a regular irritant. To this day nobody seems to be able to put a reasonable explanation forward why they fail more often that the Transit set up. Its one of life's mysteries?

Regards

Ole Dave

7th Feb 2017 3:45pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17353

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Defender will get more muck in the fuel due to the inexplicable decision to terminate the tank breather behind the rear wheel. Even after it was relocated to behind the splashguard it is still a really, really, stupid place to vent the tank.

7th Feb 2017 4:43pm

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

OleDave wrote:
Hi Ian to clarify, I agree why there should be more muck or water in the fuel unless the filter has never been changed or unless contaminated fuel used, or your pride and joy has been in some deep water doing a bit of mud plugging.

I still fail to understand why the Defender VCV set up should be any less reliable for the life of me, but facts are facts and they do seem to be a regular irritant. To this day nobody seems to be able to put a reasonable explanation forward why they fail more often that the Transit set up. Its one of life's mysteries?

Regards

Ole Dave

Your forgetting that most people on this forum do treat them as our pride and joy but the majority of them are owned by farmers who treat them no differently to their other farm equipment, ie most of the time.knee deep in

. I live on a dairy farm and the farmer never washed his defender from the day he bought it new to the day he sold it 7 years later. He is doing the same to his new Disco. There has to be some plausible reason why defenders get through more VCVs. Maybe vans generally do more longer journeys but I recon they get worked just as hard. "You are never to old to learn something new"

8th Feb 2017 12:43am

OleDave

Member Since: 19 Oct 2013
Location: CARDIFF
Posts: 175

Hi B4lamb, I am sure that all think of much of their defenders as I and you do and I was not suggesting otherwise, I just do not have any plausable exlanation to offer you and admit it, but why they give more problems on the defender nobody seems to be able to offer an answer.

My thoughts more than the reliability issues have been focused on why the VCV gives eratic idiling or shuts the engine down, the only thing I can think of is that if the VCV when cold does not respond quick enough to supply enough fuel to match the pump demand, it could be possible that the fuel pump would cavitate, but I cannot prove that, its just a theory?

Regards

Ole Dave

8th Feb 2017 8:23am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17353

I think that they are a fairly regular failure on Transits too. The first replacement I bought came from a Ford dealer (whcih is 30 miles closer to my home than the nearest LR dealer) and the momebt I asked for the VCV for a 2007 2.4 Puma engine he knew the part number from memory and had them more or less under the counter because they sold so many,

So I think that the part is fragile whatever it is fitted to. Couple that with the tabnk breather issue and Defender lifestyle and I am not in the least surprised it is a common and more frequent failure on Defender.

8th Feb 2017 8:51am

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

OleDave wrote:
Hi B4lamb, My thoughts more than the reliability issues have been focused on why the VCV gives eratic idiling or shuts the engine down, the only thing I can think of is that if the VCV when cold does not respond quick enough to supply enough fuel to match the pump demand, it could be possible that the fuel pump would cavitate, but I cannot prove that, its just a theory? Ole Dave

if I find that the fault is definately the VCV i'll slice and dice the old one to see inside. I have read it's quite a delicate mechanism and maybe susceptible to sticking in one position and not responding to changes in pulse width control demand on its internal solenoid. It seems that water in the fuel or other contaminants can result in the damage. From the comments and in my case perhaps, they often start to work ok when they warm up a bit suggesting that they use materials with different coefficients of expansion such that when warm the sliding tolerances are increased or tbe lubrication becomes more effective to overcome the sticking. Well that's my theory. It would be nice to get someone on here that makes the unit or better still the original designer. "You are never to old to learn something new"

8th Feb 2017 9:28am

OleDave

Member Since: 19 Oct 2013
Location: CARDIFF
Posts: 175

Hi B4lamb, well I did have an old one given to me to look at, ok I did not delve into trying to strip it into component parts, but in fact there is little to see, in fact the internal solenoid is sealed, well it was on the one I had, the one I looked at was from if I remember a Mondeo, it looked in great condition but on the car it was a different story, the problem of eratic idle and cutting out was solved by fitting a new one!

If you do get to slice and dice and find the reason for the sticking I am sure many on here including myself would be very interested in the review.

Regards

Ole Dave

8th Feb 2017 9:46am

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