 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Eratic Idle especially when cold |
 
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232   
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Yes available from landrover parts LR009837, Also thje exact same part available at Ford though with a different part number.
Pete |
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16th Jul 2014 9:49am |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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Yip, the one I took out looked mint inside but a new one def solved the issues... Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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20th Jan 2017 6:50am |
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| OleDave Member Since: 19 Oct 2013 Location: CARDIFF Posts: 175 
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Hi Guys, well I have not yet changed the pump suction control valve as it only plays up when the weather is very cold and clears when the engine has warmed up, in the summer no problems, no doubt its the valve that is causing the eratic idle, might get around to having it changed this year and before the summer holidays, my first job when the weather gets better is strip out the dash centre panel and the heater control for a good look as I am unable to operate the vents correctly, its driving me crackers more so than the eratic idle.
Regards Dave |
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20th Jan 2017 8:16am |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324
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The internal/external cable bent on mine and continues to do so, I have the spare but the work involved appears large compared to outcome. I since discovered that all it's doing is operating a switch on the aircon on the LHS of the engine bay (on a RHS drive), if I really need to change it, I'll just pop the hood and do it directly
My VCV valve change brought back a few horses I didn't know were missing, will be interesting to look at MPG over the next few weeks too - as it stands I'd suggest you do it sooner than later. Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... Last edited by agentmulder on 20th Jan 2017 10:00am. Edited 1 time in total |
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20th Jan 2017 8:35am |
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| OleDave Member Since: 19 Oct 2013 Location: CARDIFF Posts: 175
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Hi agentmulder, well my initial thoughts on the non working vent control was one of the heater box levers had seized, the control does work up to a point but you cannot shut off air from any direction properly as it at one stage the control comes to a dead stop.
My plan was to build up the enthusiasm to take the dash right out as you cannot get to the heater operating levers with it in, then another informed member on this forum in Aussie pointed out that he had had the exact same problem, what had happened that one of the pins had jumped out of the track on the back of the control knob, so I am stripping it when the weather gets better hoping its that? Well you are right about the suction control valve change as its not a case of if it fails its more a case of when!! it appears they are a common fault on the Puma 2.4 engine. Have looked at buying one online and I see that the Ford Tranny has an identical valve but I need to get the serial number off mine first to check it with a Ford supplier as they are much cheaper than from L.R. Maybe my next project after the heater valve. Dave |
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20th Jan 2017 9:57am |
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| B4Lamb Member Since: 21 Mar 2015 Location: Abergavenny, Wales Posts: 233  
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I'm also suspecting the VCV as the route cause of my low temperature problems (2.4 TDCI). Its winter now and at start up I have very erratic revs when cold. Big delays in response to accelerator pedal and revs, going into almost stall revs (very laboured) at times and the problem is getting worse by the day. Oddly when the engine is hot it clears up and runs fine. The Pump and VCV is bolted to the engine block so I'm assuming that when the engine heats up it seems to resolve the problem? I have a TORQUE II engine diagnostic app on my tablet and an OBD socket Bluetooth transmitter. From the tool I can see that the fuel Injector pressure is very erratic when cold and almost dies to very low pressure when it goes into one of its laboured very low rev states not responding to accelerator pedal periods. When I look at the fuel consumption rate during these periods it seems a lot higher than at normal idle revs. This confuses me as you would expect flow rate to reduce when the pressure is low. So me thinks is it a faulty injector pi55ing fuel into a cylinder and killing the pressure?? But then I think why does it take several miles before the heat solves the problem, an injector is in the cylinder head and will heat very quickly. I'm thinking should I try pre heating the VCV prior to starting to see if it overcomes the problem. If that works its got to be the VCV. As a new VCV is about £130 I don't want to buy one only to find its not the fix. Any thoughts of other more qualified members would be appreciated. Cheers all... "You are never to old to learn something new" |
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6th Feb 2017 11:35pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353 
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Your symptoms sound classic VCV and if there are no DTCs being reported personally I'd take a chance and change the VCV. The first time one malfunctioned on me I did almost everything else first because I didn't believe that one component could cause such a wide range of misleading symptoms. It was only after speaking to the senior tech at a main dealer who, on hearing the symptoms, immediately diagnosed either a stuck EGR (which I knew it couldn't be because it's disabled) or defective VCV that I changed it. Half an hour to change and bring perfection, after literally days of wasted effort.
The main clue to suspecting a faulty VCV is a wide range of fault symptoms but with no DTCs. Most of the TDCi engine systems are reasonably well monitored by the ECM and will report faults, but not the VCV. You may get fuel rail pressure faults, but you may not. An EGR fault is another possibility in your case, if you haven't had it disabled in a remap. Horrible unreliable things, EGRs! The VCV is cheaper to change (and marginally more accessible) than the EGR. Another regular fault which can cause odd symptoms, but most commonly a chronic loss of power, is a malfunctioning turbo actuator. This again can fail without meaningful DTCs and the most common cause of failure is actually harness damage where it chafes on the engine. In your case (from the symptoms and improvement when warm) I feel that this is unlikely. |
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7th Feb 2017 9:08am |
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| ian series 1 Member Since: 17 Nov 2014 Location: south Posts: 3127 
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I had exactly the same problem last year on my 08 puma.
It ran like a bag of nails in the cold weather, the engine would hunt on tickover, revs would hang in every gear change. Yet once warmed up it was fine. I changed my VCV and all the symptoms went away. Like Blackwolf said, if it was actuator/wiring fault/ EGR you would have it permanently, whatever the weather and probably with EML illuminated. VCV won't throw a code, but will give all sorts of issues. If in doubt I would change it. 80" 80" 86" 88" 90" Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered. |
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7th Feb 2017 10:29am |
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| B4Lamb Member Since: 21 Mar 2015 Location: Abergavenny, Wales Posts: 233
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Thanks Blackwolf, this gives me some reassurance. I thought it may be the EGR at first but that is simple to disconnect just to see if the symptoms change and they didn't. I replaced the EGR in 2015 as it did pack in but now it seems to be working fine. I didn't go for the block off and remap option but may do that next time it fails. I'll definitely concentrate on the VCV and put an update on this thread as to the outcome. Out of interest, when you changed your VCV did you re-calibrate as recommended? I don't have the adapters and software tools for that bit so will probably have to go to a dealer or specialist. Cheers - John "You are never to old to learn something new" |
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7th Feb 2017 10:53am |
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| B4Lamb Member Since: 21 Mar 2015 Location: Abergavenny, Wales Posts: 233
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Thanks Ian, your the second one to provide some confidence its the VCV. I will try pre heating it to see if that proves its the offending item. As I said above Ill provide updates to this thread of the outcome. Cheers, John "You are never to old to learn something new" |
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7th Feb 2017 10:56am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353
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Yes, although the engine will run after you change the VCV (and probably better than it did before, if the old one was defective) to run properly and efficiently the 'pump relearn' (also known by other names) operation needs to be carried out. You don't need to carry out an 'injector recalibration' operation, just the pump recalibration. There should be no problem changing the VCV then driving the car to a dealer for the reaclibration - it needs to be properly warm when done so may even help. When you change the VCV it helps if you have long arms and tiny hands (I have a real problem getting my hands in there!), or maybe a mutant child with exceptionally long arms and a high tolerance for pain to help you. Access is not great! |
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7th Feb 2017 11:44am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353
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I forgot to add to my earlier post, the VCV is such a common failure and causes such wierd symptoms that it is now almost my first fix solution in the event of odd things happening with no DTCs. Only once did I change the VCV and it not solve the problem, and the VCV that came out then is now my spare.
Although I don't carry a spare VCV in the car, I always keep one in stock at home. I am on No 3 at 203,000 miles at the moment. It is a very delicate device and it is almost guaranteed to give trouble if you have any kind of fuel contamination or water ingress problem. The tech I mentioned before told me (in 2010, this was) that they had changed "dozens" and always changed them even if there were no symtoms on vehicles that came in for the tank breather recall. |
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7th Feb 2017 11:49am |
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| B4Lamb Member Since: 21 Mar 2015 Location: Abergavenny, Wales Posts: 233
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I have just tried heating the VCV area with a blow torch. Pretty tricky to do without burning electrical connectors!!! I then started the engine and all seems good but of course the cooling fan is on full blast cooling down that end of the engine so after about a minute its started to get rough again with throttle delays. I think the test though shows that heat in that region restores almost normal operation so I'm going to get a new VCV. "You are never to old to learn something new"
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7th Feb 2017 11:51am |
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| WhathaveIdone! Member Since: 04 Feb 2016 Location: Sakhalin Island Posts: 27  
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Not discounting issues with the VCV, but I recently experienced problems with my 07 Puma in cold weather. I could start but it would often cut out after 20 secs or so, then when it did run the idle was irregular and the engine would not pick up or cut out. Once it warmed up it was fine.
Drained a bit of fuel from the filter and it was extremely snotty. I then remembered that as I hadn't used the car much for a couple of months, last time I filled up was in October, likely with non-winter diesel. Put a hairdryer on my fuel filter for 10 minutes and the issues went away. Temperatures were mild for here at -3 C although we had colder temperatures overnight down to -20. My webasto had also stopped working at the same time. Warming the webasto pump also brought it back into life and half a tank of winter diesel has everything back to normal. This post describes similar problems Best of luck! |
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7th Feb 2017 11:54am |
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