 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.4 not starting ..... immobiliser??? |
 
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471   
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Do you have another - good - battery you can try? Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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30th Jun 2016 1:07pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20453
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Check phisical wiring fr chafing. Definitely seems an electronic malfunction.
Try adding another temporary earth too. |
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30th Jun 2016 3:46pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Thanks guys ...... I'm going to walk away from it for a few days and get a fault code reader, we're only guessing without knowing the codes. Will post codes when I get them.
In the meantime I'd be very interested to know what gets reset when the battery is disconnected for a while? |
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30th Jun 2016 7:38pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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The following codes were present when checked with a cheap ebay Bluetooth OBDII interface and Torque app.
P1103 Mass air flow (MAF) sensor in range but higher than expected U0155 Lost communication with instrument cluster Cleared faults and they did not return after further failed starts. |
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11th Jul 2016 5:02pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Didn't go near it since last Monday, when it wouldn't start ...... this afternoon, a week later, it started first time every time I tried it without any signs of it cutting out or not cranking.
Checked for fault codes, none present. Only thing that's changed is the temperature, it was hot here today!! So was today hot enough for the ECM to decide not to use the glow plugs, hence reducing the load on the battery? |
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18th Jul 2016 10:25pm |
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| Jukathy Member Since: 25 Jan 2015 Location: Berlin Posts: 170 
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Rumors are indicating that ECU/10AS are paired at any time i.e. even if functions are disabled.
I'd therefore guess a defective modul - either ECU or 10AS. |
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19th Jul 2016 11:52am |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Thanks, I've been thinking the same, but expected associated fault codes to appear?
It started perfectly again this morning ...... this is now really annoying. |
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19th Jul 2016 12:28pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295 
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Hello 4wd-junky
I have been following your thread, and whilst I don't have the answer, and 'electricary' (especially involving computers / with 'hand shake' control between components) remains one step from the dark arts for me... I do have a couple of observations... that just may help. 1 I know that for a number of vehicles in the Land Rover range, a specialist LR Independent I use 'resets' the ECU / Alarm 'systems', by disconnecting both the + and - terminals of the battery and joins them together...leaves for 30 sec- 1 minute and the re-attaches to the Battery + 1st - 2nd. This sometime (often) has the desired effect...all works again, LR do this by diagnosis and reset via the plug in the the ECU. 2 I once had a 'now it works'... 'now it doesn't fault' on a sports car fitted with an after market Thatcham Alarm, (that was top money then and when tested always reported OK)...in the end after adopting first the 'find the poor connection route', then upgrading to the 'replace each switch, connection, plug route' we came back to the Alarm...still registering OK, the main box was swapped out and the problem never returned. To the credit of the Alarm Manufacture they returned the original unit to source, bench cycled tested it and it did reproduce my real world experience eventually, the design was updated and I subsequently had a third fitted, after never actually experiencing a problem with the second unit. Lesson...If possible swap over one significant element (Lucus 10AS / ECU) and test / prove the outcome. Good Luck SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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19th Jul 2016 2:55pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Many Thanks for your thoughts ......... I've another 10as unit I could try but possibly need to invest in a diagnostic unit to set it up, unless some can confirm it is possible with my original nanocom?
Also, I've considered a replacement ECM, but they're not plug and play either so have to do a bit more research before spending my £'s. On a lighter note ...... I have used the puma all day today with no problems.  |
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19th Jul 2016 5:24pm |
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| Jukathy Member Since: 25 Jan 2015 Location: Berlin Posts: 170
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I'm not quite sure if the ECU is capable of testing the 10AS (since they're from different worlds and times ...  )
It is really worthwhile to check all possible fault codes. If there was a fault code for the 10AS the ECU had the higher probability to be defective. But I'd also recommend the 'hard reset' at first. With the wiring in its original state ... |
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19th Jul 2016 7:10pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Brian, as per my pm have you put the bypass shunt in yet?? If not put it in and let me know if the non starting issue goes away. BTW, U0155 means the IPAC has lost comms with the EMS, an important part of the immobiliser circuit is not working hence the sporadic non starting. As it has been warm today the issue may have resolved itself temporarily due to heat expansion of the circuit boards, wiring etc etc. Also I would not be surprised to see P1602 Immobilizer/ECM Communication Error logged in the untested DTC's on the EMS.
It can't as the EMS is on the CANBUS and the 10AS is on a serial analogue circuit and does not communicate at all with the EMS. The 10AS communicates with the EMS only via the IPAC.
Why would you think the EMS is at fault? There is only one feed into the EMS for the immobiliser circuit and that comes from the IPAC. To replace a 10AS you would need to carry out a DDS learn to pair the 10AS to the IPAC and EMS as well as having to recode all your remotes. FWIW I think the fault is with the IPAC but you need to put the bypass shunt in to see if that is were the issue is. If not then you can move on to the next link in the chain. That way you are not spending ££'s replacing perfectly serviceable parts. Folk's, Please don't ask me or 4wd-junky what the bypass shunt is as I don't want it to become common knowledge. Thanks. |
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19th Jul 2016 9:56pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Thanks Jukathy .........Previously, I used the hard reset method to get it started, but then the problem eventually returned, so I've decided to stop hard resets to try and find the actual problem.
Thanks Brian ....... It was my intention to fit the shunt yesterday and then again today, but it's started every time. Maybe tomorrow 
I need it not to start, then check for fault codes, and fit the shunt and see if it starts. I don't know how long the U0155 code has been logged, But when I cleared the codes last Monday and it didn't start, the U0155 code did not reappear after 10+ failed starts. I thought this was odd, would you agree? I've read some posts on here about early ECMs failing resulting in the symptoms I'm experiencing, unfortunately there is very little detail other than a new ECM was fitted and the problem disappeared. As for changing the 10as unit, my plan was to fit the replacement unit and write my current saved 10as settings to the replacement unit with my nanocom. If I do this, will the DDS learn you refer to still be necessary or will the ECM think its still the same original 10as unit? Also, there are no remotes for this vehicle and the plip functions are disabled. |
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19th Jul 2016 10:50pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Puma started today ....... I'll never find the problem at this rate!
Can anyone think of a way to make the fault return ........ apart from parking it in a cold store? |
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20th Jul 2016 2:25pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Puma started today.
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21st Jul 2016 1:56pm |
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