 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.4 not starting ..... immobiliser??? |
 
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| xpertoftheseas Member Since: 05 Jan 2016 Location: Salisbury, Wilts Posts: 164   
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We could narrow this down a little by doing this.
Next time is happens, remove the key and lock with the remote. Wait for the dash light to stop rapidly flashing then unlock and try. If it starts, it is indicating and immobiliser or security fault. If it still fails to start, do not disconnect the battery, but wait 5 minutes (the time taken for the Engine ECU to hibernate (its actually 90 secs but give it some more time)). Then try again. If it starts then it would point fingers at the ECU, BUT this does not rule out a sensor fault. Does this happen with both keys or just one? When starting, do you give enough time for glow plug light to extinguish regardless of engine temp? This will partially eliminate the glow plugs as a source of issue but not completely. This will assist in aiming in the right direction. Still a ways to go to find the fault. Do you have a multimeter? My 10th Land Rover, but my first Defender. |
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2nd Aug 2016 7:56pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Thanks for your input.
My puma does not have any remotes, central locking or alarm sensors. The passive immobilizer is disabled and the red dash light is not in use. When it doesn't want to start, it only cranks for a couple of seconds then dies, and if I wait for the glow plug light to go out it will not crank at all. When it wants to start it will fire up immediately without waiting for the glow plugs to heat. I have a multimeter. |
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2nd Aug 2016 9:50pm |
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| xpertoftheseas Member Since: 05 Jan 2016 Location: Salisbury, Wilts Posts: 164
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This narrows it down a lot if I am right by assuming that the immobiliser is not an issue as it is disabled, but please clarify disabled, how? When?
Now we can identify if it is an ECU fault or something else (although is really does sound like an ECU fault but we should eliminate the easy parts first)  Click image to enlarge Get your multimeter and connect it across the coil of R102. Next time you cannot start it check the voltage across the terminals when the key is in the CRANK position. The ECM willl enable starting by sending C0872-L2 low. If you get 12v across the terminals then the ECU is enabling the cranking, and the problem is in the starter circuit which is a simple fault to find. If you get 0v then the ECU is not allowing CRANK and this is a bigger issue which we will need to delve into in more detail. The first look will be to check any inputs to the ECU from Alarm and immobiliser modules (if they are still there), Lets start from here. To make sure we are looking at the correct diagrams, please post the exact spec and model year of your Defender. My 10th Land Rover, but my first Defender. |
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2nd Aug 2016 10:46pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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I can confirm the key switch is working correctly and it is the ECM that is cutting the earth to the starter relay when it won't start. Also, when I manually operate the starter solenoid it won't start either, so the ECM is also cutting fuel.
I currently suspect the 10as immobiliser signal is not being received by the ECM. I have checked and cleaned the connections on the 10as unit, but they appeared to be in good condition. I still need to remove and open the 10as unit to check for water ingress, but the surrounding area appears to be dusty and dry so have not done this yet. lorryman100 has explained to me how I can bypass the instrument cluster to eliminate it as the problem, but I need total failure to start again, before I can test this. It is a Nov 2007 built, farmer spec, 2.4 90 pickup. |
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2nd Aug 2016 11:15pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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The day I have been waiting on has arrived ......... puma refused to start today, same as before cranked for a few seconds then stopped.
Installed the shunt and it started first time, removed the shunt and it wouldn't start as above. Just now need to decide what the final fix is. |
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3rd Aug 2016 1:23pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
The symptoms you described pointed to an immobiliser fault and by putting the shunt in now proves this. The issue is with the IPAC and short of replacing it there are other options which I will pm you. Again please keep the details of what you have done off an open forum, never know who is watching.
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3rd Aug 2016 3:46pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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PM rec'd. Thank you! Brian.
And Many Thanks to all the other members who have offered helpful suggestions and possible solutions |
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3rd Aug 2016 6:06pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8058  
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Have read this with interest, I get intermittent same problem with one I use. Same as video posted to. It had no remote, cdl etc.
What's is 10as so I can check for water, fitting? Will also check cluster fittings Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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4th Aug 2016 5:55am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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The 10AS is the alarm/immobilser module. It's attached to the bulkhead above your right knee. If you were to put your right hand out straight in front of you and magically through the dash you'd find it. It's about 15cm*15cm and I vaguely remember it being green but it's obviously labelled. If you take the lower speaker out you can see it.
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4th Aug 2016 8:25am |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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James ....... If it's the same problem as I had, the first thing you need to check is the starter relay connections and inputs with a multimeter. The key switch supplies the live feed to close the starter relay and the ECM supplies the earth.
On my puma the relay was opening during starting because the ECM was intermittently not receiving the 10as immobiliser signal to allow starting. Also, another test you can do is to try to bump start it ....... if it starts, its possibly not an immobiliser problem, as the ECM also cuts the fuel if the immobiliser signal is not received AFAIK. |
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4th Aug 2016 9:51am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8058
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perfect on both, thank you. current issue is she is starting fine... will await the not so fine day! thank you Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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5th Aug 2016 9:58pm |
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| Ben1756 Member Since: 31 Jan 2017 Location: South wales Posts: 4
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I have exactly the same fault.
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31st Jan 2017 7:21pm |
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| Ben1756 Member Since: 31 Jan 2017 Location: South wales Posts: 4
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new to this.......I have traced it back to the ipac can anyone advise me how to bypass this to confirm the ipac is 100% at fault??
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31st Jan 2017 7:23pm |
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| 4wd-junky Member Since: 31 Aug 2014 Location: UK Posts: 89
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Is your's a 2.4 without remote locking etc etc?
Any faults logged? |
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31st Jan 2017 8:54pm |
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