 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > NEXT LAND ROVER DEFENDER |
 
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7903   
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Well I'm totally confused I cannot see how the defender replacement can be above the Discovery, doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Why would you buy a defender replacement over the Discovery?
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18th Dec 2015 8:42pm |
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| Inigo Member Since: 13 Nov 2011 Location: Kent Posts: 617 
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I remember when Jaguar launched the X-type, they also optimistically planned to sell 100,000 a year. When they only managed to sell 50,000 a year it was deemed a flop.
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18th Dec 2015 8:50pm |
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| YOLO110 Member Since: 14 Feb 2015 Location: Perth Oz and Stansted UK Posts: 1641 
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It's NUTS!
IF JLR had invested in the R and D to make the current Defender achieve the various hurdles of safety and emissions, I a sure they would have managed to retain the existing vehicle... FFS, over 2 million sales.. that is 26,666 per year. A 'flop' if you use those 'targets'... but move the price up a bit to achieve closer unit cost parity, combine it with the 'heritage' that has been the mainstay for JLR and I reckon it would have gone another 67 years!!!  YOLO... You Only Live Once... |
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18th Dec 2015 9:21pm |
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| LEZ Member Since: 22 Oct 2015 Location: London Posts: 167
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You make perfect sense Mr.YOLO. Will JLR listen, nah
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18th Dec 2015 9:39pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17314 
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Will I be able to fit a cherry-picker in the back, or (as featured in an early 80" brochure) equipment for killing locusts?
If not, it isn't a Defender! |
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18th Dec 2015 10:39pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3779 
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G'Day Pete. Mate, as you know, I normally agree with you, but on this occasion, if we wanna be really serious about Defender, I reckon it's a lot more than "emissions & safety",.......because, the "whole vehicle" is from a "past era"!! As well as emissions & safety (safety is a huge issue,...engineering for front & side airbags??)Engine, drivetrain, passenger "facilities" like all the competition have, all add up to making the future selling of what we've got, impossible,.....in addition, the military market, which now doesn't even consider Defender, wouldn't be improved by emissions & safety. Just my thoughts Pete, but ya know what, I'm sorta happy that things have gone the way they have, I'm SUPER happy with Gracie, & mate, you've got TWO of the very last,.....I just think that the fact that Defender as we know it will not continue, just makes ours that little bit more "special". Regards, Martin. |
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18th Dec 2015 11:00pm |
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| YOLO110 Member Since: 14 Feb 2015 Location: Perth Oz and Stansted UK Posts: 1641
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Of course mate!
I was not just limiting development thoughts to emissions and safety... it could have gone a lot further into all the other aspects you correctly refer to!, whilst still retaining the enduring features and looks that have seen the Defender through all these years. I think it is particularly interesting to note that inspire of all the advances, esp in the last decade with passenger comfort, ride quality, airbags, electronic driver aids etc etc, the Defender has still sold in very good numbers! It's distinctive and stands apart from 'the rest'! I look at the new Discovery and with my eyes squinted, it looks the same as the RR, the Evoque, the Freelander... they are all morphed into one 'new' design that actually looks all quite similar. Does nothing for me, even though all 3 cars are obviously very capable! In fact, my other half has her Evoque and it's a very nice place to be. But personally, if you gave me the choice of it, or my Defender for an extended 'lap' of Australia, I would not hesitate to choose the Defender! Anyway, it is what it is! And yes, I indeed feel and know I am, like you, very lucky to own one of the last.  YOLO... You Only Live Once... |
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19th Dec 2015 4:51am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Would have to take issue with your assertion that the defender has sold in good numbers - less than 20k annual sales is not the level needed to be attractive to jlr, or indeed generate the return needed to invest in model development.
One thing you have to agree with from Gerry mcgoven is the fact that everyone loves the defender but want someone else to buy them! |
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19th Dec 2015 7:41am |
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| YOLO110 Member Since: 14 Feb 2015 Location: Perth Oz and Stansted UK Posts: 1641
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My point was less scripted really... as long as the cost of the actual production of the Defender was covered, with sales profit, more R and D to achieve what would have been needed, could perhaps have been offset by the huge profit margins and volumes achieved with the other models in the JLR portfolio. Having an 'iconic' marque such as the original (Series) Defender still available as the identifiable historical roots of the company was a bloody good thing.
Indeed, yesterday when I walked into a JLR dealership, there was not a single Defender anywhere on the premises. This was the first time I had experienced this... it felt really 'odd'... something was definitely missing and to me, that stood out very clearly. Instead, I was surrounded by a sea of 'bling and plastic' of the modern CAD vehicles... that almost could have had any company badge on them. I wonder how many people will walk in and ask a salesman "where is the Defender"...
I think JLR will miss this product... YOLO... You Only Live Once... |
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19th Dec 2015 8:59am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I think i share some of your points but have to be realistic - jlr is a business and can make more money by scrapping the defender and re-deploying assets.
If they had started investing incrementally several years ago then we might be in a different position now; equally, if some of the other models had not been the huge success they have been then maybe the defender project would have gotten more time and attention. The guy at the top has made the point recently that they only have the number of top personnel to target so many projects at the same time and so many of the things they want to do will have to wait until other higher priority things are completed first. Space is at a premium at Solihull and I think the return per square foot will be much higher with the jag they are supposed to be putting in. "I wonder how many people will walk in and ask a salesman "where is the Defender"..." - sadly, I think only a very limited few. Of course, if the defender really had a champion within the higher echelons willing to fight the cause on the grounds of brand values, link to the past, iconograohy, etc, then the business case could and would have been made. It speaks volumes that the current management haven't. |
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19th Dec 2015 9:20am |
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| YOLO110 Member Since: 14 Feb 2015 Location: Perth Oz and Stansted UK Posts: 1641
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I think they probably did have that conversation... and made their decision!
Life goes on...
(in a few weeks, I am going to walk into a dealer and ask that question!!!) YOLO... You Only Live Once... |
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19th Dec 2015 9:36am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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Currently, we only have the current Defender, a show car and some journalistic speculation to go on.
But, there is another great British icon, that we can draw comparison from..... (I do apologise for the length of this, but bare with me, please...) It went into production in 1959, and ran for 41 years, with various mechanical upgrades, ever bigger wheels, dash mods and fashionably bigger lights. It started out as the best and "compactest" people mover worldwide, was competitively priced, and had a classless charm. Was driven and loved by everyman, pop stars, royalty and Peter Sellars. it kept it´s external door hinges all the way through, and finished its tenure, selling only to enthusiasts in declining quantities. Even the plastic wheelarch extensions and wide 13 inch wheels couldn´t save it. The punters who wanted an economical vehicle to do the shopping and the school run in, had long since moved on to "better" things. Contemporary, relevant, safe, efficient, fashionable vehicles that come and go every couple of years.... That was in October 2000, when after a run of 5.4 million vehicles, the last Austin Mini went down the lne.... They said there would never be another true Mini. A year or so later the new BMW Mini came along. I remember it well. We all looked very doubtingly at it. It was attractive, familiar but oh so big, and the plastic, superficial, fashionable marketing ploy....was scary. No replacement for our beloved Min, we said. At some point a friend handed me the keys to his 2010 Cooper S Works, and I experienced something similar to my first drive in a 300 Tdi ....back in 1998. I was so impressed with what had become of the Mini, and how the memories came flooding back. I had driven, as a teenager, and grown up with Austin Minis. I figured they would never be able to distill that essence into a modern package. My son has recently got into modern Minis, and I see glint in his eyes, as he relates details of his latest upgrade and the last blast in it..... Look at how the new Mini has moved the Austin Mini on. I am not talking about some of the variations that have since somewhat ruined the good start that BMW made. But there is hope..... Stephen 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s, Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons |
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19th Dec 2015 9:54am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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It's funny, when I look at the old and new mini, I come to exactly the opposite conclusion; and would use it as a case study of what can go wrong.
Nevertheless, a very successful vehicle, with sales all round the world. |
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19th Dec 2015 10:29am |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5108  
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I agree the BMW ‘Mini’ is a lovely car, my son drives one. However being old enough to recall the original ‘Mini’ all I can say is the BMW ‘Mini is not a ‘Mini’ and in my opinion BMW should have called it something else.
Similarly and in the same vein I feel that whatever JLR come up with to replace the Defender, it will not be a Defender, no matter how big, comfy and powerful the new model may be. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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19th Dec 2015 10:50am |
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