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Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6312

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

guys - no doubting what's been said here but I do have to wonder......

if the hi/lo is either in or out of gear how do you think miserableoldgit couldn't get a smooth gear change and it turned out to be the hi not fully engaged?

miserableoldgits symptoms are pretty much exactly as mine in terms of not getting a smooth gear change?

24th Jun 2015 1:26pm

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

Caterham wrote:
guys - no doubting what's been said here but I do have to wonder......

Stop wondering and start taking the advice that's been offered!

Go and test the detent mechanism as suggested by Blackwolf instead of constantly 'theorising' or take it to someone who knows exactly what they're doing instead of just tinkering! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

24th Jun 2015 1:32pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6312

I was just trying to understand how this all works.
Will be taking BW's advice when I get home and methodically working through what's been said and recording details accordingly.....

me tinker - never

24th Jun 2015 1:42pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17526

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

It is hard to think of any reason why the state of the transfer box selector mechanism would have any bearing on the ability or otherwise of the driver to change gear on the main gearbox. I feel it probable that any perceived correlation is coincidental and not consequential.

The only common factor is the gear lever mounting, since both levers are supported by the same, resiliently mounted casting. Main gearchange smoothness is dependent upon this casting being quite precisely aligned (hence the modification to fit movement-limiting bushes to the resilient mounts, and the stipulation in the WSM that a special locating jig should be used to locate the housing correctly when refitting) so it may be that a serious problem with the transfer box linkage could shift the housing and cause gearchange problems. That is, however, the only scenario I can think of, and it seems unlikely.

24th Jun 2015 1:52pm

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

Good, sound advice.

blackwolf wrote:
Both the high/low selector shaft and the difflock selector shaft have detents on them which determine the correct position of the selector. The linkage and lever should be adjusted so that the shaft moves until the detent is properly engaged.

There are many ways in which the movement of the lever can be compromised so that this doesn't happen - it can be that the lever housing isn't in the right place, there are carpets/mats/gaiters restricting movement, or that the moving parts of the lever and linkage mechanism (the lever ball or pivot, and the linkage pivots and joints) need cleaning and lubricating. Usually problems with transfer box mode selection are down to a lack of lubrication and stiffness in the external linkages.

Adjusting the lengths of the linkages is generally unnecessary, and certainly won't "increase leverage".

If you really think that there is a problem with the linkage, disconnect the hi/lo lever at the t-box end and go for a drive. the lever doesn't hold the box in gear, the detent does that, so if you problems go away you know that the lever is at the root of the problem. Be aware that the linkage on the TDCi is very inaccessible and not easy to disconnect.

In mitigation if you remove the tunnel tray which does take a bit of time getting access to without cutting carpets, the linkages are easy to disconnect and you can drive it without refitting. Should you break down and if you've skinny long legs you can Fred Flintstone it home by sticking your pins through the apertures and walking it home. At the very least cleaning the linkages down as they may be encrusted with underseal or any other crud may be a good move just as an elimination process.

If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

24th Jun 2015 1:55pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17526

Oh Lordy! Now you've initiated the "Caterham's Carpet Catastrophe" thread (or the "Caterham's Mat Meltdown" thread if he doesn't have carpets).

"One of the plastic plugs which holds the carpet down in the passenger footwell is crooked in its hole. Could this be the reason for the Greek National Debt and also why my MIL light doesn't work any more?"

Sorry Wayne, only pulling your leg!

Last edited by blackwolf on 24th Jun 2015 2:07pm. Edited 1 time in total

24th Jun 2015 2:04pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6312

thank you both very much and will go away and try / do as suggested above.......but (as I start running for cover as if I'd just thrown a grenade).

Miserableoldgit was of the opinion.......tell you what I'll PM him to keep the piece

24th Jun 2015 2:07pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17526

I have re-read M.o.G's comments which you quoted above.

A worn high/low selector sleeve or hub could conceivably cause this, if it was worn so that when not fully engaged there was excessive slop between the rear output shaft and the high range gear.

If this was the case, then there are two simultaneous problems occurring: (1) the wear noted above, and (2) a failure to engage the high range selector sleeve fully, so the selector shaft detent isn't holding the selector. Wear sufficient to cause (1) could make (2) more likely, though, so it is possible.

You really don't want to ask how to check for wear in these areas, though!

24th Jun 2015 2:15pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6312

............................................................................................................................

I knew it couldn't be anything to do with the carpet plastic plug things as they've been out recently and cleaned - fitted some dynomat while I was at it.

go on then.......you've tempted me......how do you check for flange wear........(and could following be related- flat surface - ticking over in 3rd slowly increase revs and without straining the engine it seems like something is twisting out of alignment and applying a brake to the transmission?)....ignore that comment don't even what to think about that - just the checking of flange wear - sounds exciting. will I need any rubber gloves

Last edited by Caterham on 24th Jun 2015 2:24pm. Edited 1 time in total

24th Jun 2015 2:18pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17526

The transfer box is actually a very simple component. There are copies of the overhaul manual available online (for example here), and although there are several variants of the basic LT230 they are all pretty much the same. To understand how it works it doesn't matter which manual you use.

If you download yourself a manual you'll see what I am talking about, and have all the knowledge to carry out a full strip down and inspection.

24th Jun 2015 2:23pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6312

thank you. more bed time reading........

and more nightmares.

24th Jun 2015 2:24pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17526

Caterham wrote:
......how do you check for flange wear........

Sorry, where did "flange wear" come from?

Do you mean wear on the selector sleeve and hub? If so, you strip the transfer box completely and inspect the relevant components.

24th Jun 2015 4:39pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6312

Sorry hub.

24th Jun 2015 5:19pm

Happyoldgit

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

Aha, so this is why my ears have been burning!!!

Partial engagement by yours truly was the cause of the additional backlash and also why the transfer box jumped out of gear while under power as I pulled pretty smart-ish out from a junction. To put it simply the selector shaft was not fully engaged in the detent. I recall the vehicle was virtually new at the time and the ratio lever quite stiff, component wear or non factory adjustment did not enter the equation.

I have delved into enough Land Rover transfer boxes over the years and they are simple enough to understand, bar fluid checks and changes all the ones in Puma's I've owned have remained virginal when it comes to any delving on my part though

Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

24th Jun 2015 5:34pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6312

Thanks Steve

24th Jun 2015 6:06pm

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