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kirk

Member Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Posts: 28

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Blenheim Silver

Hi Mates,

I have an additional observation to add to this conversation about ambient temperatures, engine load, and coolant temperatures. Please, forgive me for such a long post.

This past weekend, we took the 110 on a camping trip - fully loaded with kit and kids. 700km round trip.

We left in the morning. Ambient temperatures were less than 30c. The engine performed well. It didn't begin to overheat, even at speeds above 125 kph. Coolant temps ran between 88 and 92c and didnt cause concern.

After a late morning rest stop at a petro station, we returned to the highway running at and above 125kph. Ambient temps climbed above 32c. The coolant temps began to climb, as well. Coolant temps climbed particularly fast when going uphill with the A/C on. However, I could regulate coolant temperatures with different strategies such as slowing down and/or switching off the a/c.

A few days later on the return trip, we left in the late afternoon with ambient temps above 32c. Same problem with coolant temperatures - sometimes reaching as high as 98 to 100c. At which time I would slow down and the coolant temps would decrease.

As evening set in, ambient temps dropped below 32c and the coolant temperatures normalized (88 to 92c). There was a time during the journey when temps would fluctuate slightly above or below 32. When it was above - coolant issues would increase. When it was below, coolant temperatures were not an issue, unless I pushed the engine harder, then coolant temps would increase, but not as much and not as fast.

I'm by no means a mechanic - only an obsessed defender owner trying to trouble shoot an annoying problem. But this data seems to fit a hypothesis developed in this discussion. Doesn't it?

A warm weather thermostat that opens at a lower coolant temperature (82c) helps compensate for warmer ambient temperatures.

I am willing to bet on it. I'll order the part number referenced above and report back after sufficient field trials.

If you have any thoughts, let me know.

Cheers

Kirk

17th Nov 2014 5:06pm

Regard

Member Since: 08 Dec 2011
Location: RSA
Posts: 251

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 X-Tech LE Orkney Grey

Hi Kirk

So glad to hear from another "warm climate" member having similar issues.

I think it is fair to say that Land Rover's stories they gave us as an excuse after we moaned with them, that "they tested their Puma's in the middle east and it performed 100% thus it is impossible for us to have these problems" has just been proven to be utter Bull S#it!

Hope this post leads to a lot of happier Defender chappies esp in the warm climate areas!

17th Nov 2014 5:43pm

Regard

Member Since: 08 Dec 2011
Location: RSA
Posts: 251

munch90 wrote:
right ive tried the lower temp thermostat which is a gray one 82o with light spring

only done one shortish run so far results using scangauge

yes is running cooler before would see temps of about 86-90 now about 80-84 mainly 82ish

seemed to take longer to warm up (but maybe never really taken notice of it before )

temp seemed to go up and down by few degrees when warming up (but maybe never really taken notice of it before )

once warmed up seemed to stay bit more steady , but when you put your foot down temp dropped within few seconds by few degrees

temp going up and down bit when first warming up could be bit of air in system ( level has dropped a bit after the run )

don't know about towing as not done any , but before I felt that maybe temp (maybe see 94-96 on a hill ) was up a bit more then I would have liked when towing before

dash gauge never showed any drops or rises as they not that sensitive I think as normally centre postion has quite a large range

Super!

Thanx Munch!

Good to have it confirmed then.

FL I/ Disco II warm weather thermostat with part no. PEL500110.

Mine will be done on the 26th.

17th Nov 2014 5:53pm

Tim seymour

Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Devonport TAS
Posts: 92

be aware I orderd one from britsh 4wd part in Hobart with order number pel500110 and it came back with 92c on the side order number was correct. so orderd one ebay grey and states 82c so beware cheers Tim

Cess the Taswegian

18th Nov 2014 10:14pm

pannawonica

Member Since: 21 Nov 2010
Location: Clackline Western Australia
Posts: 568

British Atlantiic have them for @$48 Dollars. PEL 500110 grey spring, 82 deg C. I have not looked at postage cost. There maybe a better deal out there!

22nd Nov 2014 3:07am

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3641

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

kirk wrote:
Hi Mates,

I have an additional observation to add to this conversation about ambient temperatures, engine load, and coolant temperatures. Please, forgive me for such a long post.

This past weekend, we took the 110 on a camping trip - fully loaded with kit and kids. 700km round trip.

We left in the morning. Ambient temperatures were less than 30c. The engine performed well. It didn't begin to overheat, even at speeds above 125 kph. Coolant temps ran between 88 and 92c and didnt cause concern.

After a late morning rest stop at a petro station, we returned to the highway running at and above 125kph. Ambient temps climbed above 32c. The coolant temps began to climb, as well. Coolant temps climbed particularly fast when going uphill with the A/C on. However, I could regulate coolant temperatures with different strategies such as slowing down and/or switching off the a/c.

A few days later on the return trip, we left in the late afternoon with ambient temps above 32c. Same problem with coolant temperatures - sometimes reaching as high as 98 to 100c. At which time I would slow down and the coolant temps would decrease.

As evening set in, ambient temps dropped below 32c and the coolant temperatures normalized (88 to 92c). There was a time during the journey when temps would fluctuate slightly above or below 32. When it was above - coolant issues would increase. When it was below, coolant temperatures were not an issue, unless I pushed the engine harder, then coolant temps would increase, but not as much and not as fast.

I'm by no means a mechanic - only an obsessed defender owner trying to trouble shoot an annoying problem. But this data seems to fit a hypothesis developed in this discussion. Doesn't it?

A warm weather thermostat that opens at a lower coolant temperature (82c) helps compensate for warmer ambient temperatures.

I am willing to bet on it. I'll order the part number referenced above and report back after sufficient field trials.

If you have any thoughts, let me know.

Cheers

Kirk

If this car is all in as built configuration and everything is working correctly it would suggest that the cooling system is actually inadequate.

The engine temperatures seen should be fairly stable and not increase much beyond the thermostats fully open temperature if everything else is capable of cooling at these ambient temps.

This would therefore suggest that something more serious is required than a thermostat change, as a lower temperature thermostat would just open fully sooner slightly delaying an overheat.

If we therefore assume that the radiators ability to transfer the heat out of the coolant is the actual issue and not the actual design of coolant circuit then the capacity of the radiator to transfer the heat from the coolant to the air needs to be increased, this presents several options or combinations of options.

1/ Cleaning it if it is dirty (either internally or externally)
2/ Use a water wetter that increases the ability of the coolant to transfer heat
3/ Increase the airflow over the radiator, by the use of additional fans, consider a smaller fan pulley, remove any obstructions, find a way to allow more air out of the engine bay
4/ Fit a radiator with a greater surface area, either being physically bigger or having a better performing core
5/ Fit an auxiliary radiator to assist the cooling

hope you all find a solution DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

22nd Nov 2014 7:37am

Tim seymour

Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Devonport TAS
Posts: 92

landrover has got the thermostst to open late to increase temp to decrease exhaust emissions the reason so many people have had problems . I had no worries until I fitted bigger tyers and seen an increase up around 96c when going up hill but would soon drop of when I eased of or went back to 5th so iam going to change my thermostat to 82c dew to the fact I haven,t hooked my van up yet worried me cheers tim

Cess the Taswegian

22nd Nov 2014 9:46am

pannawonica

Member Since: 21 Nov 2010
Location: Clackline Western Australia
Posts: 568

It was the mid forties yesterday, and unusually I was pressed for time. Anyhow at legal speeds I was running at 88-92 DegC, however anything above, a boiling did we go. It did come straight back down as I backed off. I'm very interested how you go with the 82 degree thermostats.

22nd Nov 2014 12:50pm

Tim seymour

Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Devonport TAS
Posts: 92

because that is the one that has been used before in this forum and seems to work and landrover thermostat states that the orginal one is open at 96c in work shop manual no were there is enough room for temp rise when towing or pushing hard just my opion cheers tim

Cess the Taswegian

22nd Nov 2014 9:33pm

pannawonica

Member Since: 21 Nov 2010
Location: Clackline Western Australia
Posts: 568

Thanks Tim for your most useful post, from my ultra gauge I knew about the 88 opening, however not the 96 fully open.

23rd Nov 2014 1:38am

Tim seymour

Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Devonport TAS
Posts: 92

yes I think 96c is too hot and to close to 100c cheers please to help tim

Cess the Taswegian

23rd Nov 2014 6:11am

Tim seymour

Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Devonport TAS
Posts: 92

pannawonica wrote:
Thanks Tim for your most useful post, from my ultra gauge I knew about the 88 opening, however not the 96 fully open.

well I put mine in to day and it is working really great hovering around 82 no problems

Cess the Taswegian

1st Dec 2014 8:39am

pannawonica

Member Since: 21 Nov 2010
Location: Clackline Western Australia
Posts: 568

Tim where did you get it from and what price? Also what ambient temperature, or work load is applicable, and did you disconnect the fuel cooler too bleed the system or top up and air bleed?

2nd Dec 2014 2:25am

Tim seymour

Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Devonport TAS
Posts: 92

I brought mine of ebay british parts Utah landrover99 discovery low temp soft spring 82c which fits strait swap for old puma one out side temp was about 23c . It still warms up in the same time just stay around 82c no I didn't. disconnect fuel cooler. turned heater on full undone the tank cap and bleed screw replaced thermostat filled tank replace bleed screw run engine at 3000rpm for 1 min and check or to up hope this helps iam really pleased cheers

Cess the Taswegian

2nd Dec 2014 4:24am

Partyranger

Member Since: 27 Oct 2014
Location: Gauteng, Pretoria
Posts: 13

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Tonga Green

Ok so a little feedback from me too:

I recently did a 1550km trip from Cape town to Johannesburg, Starts at sea level and stops 1500m above sea level so there was quite a bit of uphills.

Obviously the temperatures fluctuated quite a bit, especially as ambient was about 28Deg C.
All the speeds were also GPS speed, so slightly faster on the actuall clock.
If I maintained about 100km/h then the temps tend to hang around the 82-84 Deg C.
If i kept it closer to the 110km/h then the temps seemed to stay closer to the 88-90 Deg C.
While if I kept it closer to 120km/h (2500 RPM) then the temps stayed closer to the 94deg C.

So this might not be all that impressive but like I said, it was warmer with mainly uphill driving and a wind slightly from the side / rear side, so not as much airflow through the radiators.

BUT, the nice part was that I could now maintain my 120 all the way, only twice did the temps reach 100Deg C and I slowed down a little.
Normally I would have had to slow down and taken a more leisurely drive back.

Its not a miracle cure but it certainly does make everything much cooler and more pleasant to drive.

Please let us know what you guys find down in Aus. BTW have you also done the larger inter-coolers??

2nd Dec 2014 2:52pm

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