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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101   
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the ex RAF 110 utility i bought had one fitted under the rear seat on the NS. gets very hot quick, not sure what stat they run etc as mine seem to only control fan speed of unit not temp.
Over kill IMHO, especially for a UK puma. rear heater is required though so hence why im thinking wet heater in the same location. |
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7th Oct 2012 10:49am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024  
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i concur total over kill but i have it so why not fit!!! can always come out.
it will also heat the vehicle when the coolant is cold. how hot is hot though!? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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7th Oct 2012 6:32pm |
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| Peter Td4 Member Since: 23 Oct 2010 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Posts: 227  
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Perhaps this might help a bit
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The following is a description on how I fitted a Webasto 2000 ST cabine heater to my 110 Td5 Station Wagon. This Defender is undergoing modifications for it to be used as a basic camper. From now on it will always be comfortably warm in this Td5  .
The Eberspächer Airtronic D2 was considered as a possible alternative, with the interesting feature that the power consumption on the lowest heating position is much lower. The Webasto on the other hand provides continuous variable fan speed, so can be adjusted as needed. Although very similar both products have a number of small difference. Before making my final choice I've spoken to a number of local dealers and this contributed to my preference of the Webasto kit. So far I'm pretty impressed by the quality of the materials supplied. All items are build to a very high standard. The manual leaves some questions open but this kind of installation is not complicated so all went well. The heater as supplied out of the box: 
Initially I played with the idea to mount the Webasto under the left rear wing, as there is a lot of space in that corner. This however would require the construction of a sealed compartiment. Because of the added complexity and limited access for service purposes I opted to mount the heater under the rear seats, close to the rear left passenger door. The first step, after measuring 5 times to make sure all would fit , was to remove the carpets and put the drilling template in place. The Webasto cannot be placed on sufaces uneven by more than 1 mm, so this should be considered.
Another requirement is the mounting of the heater well above the wading line. The location that I selected provides a 300 mm margin over the 500 mm specified by Land Rover. (with standard tires and suspension ). To make the two big holes I used a step dril. Nice round holes are made effortless.
Once all holes are drilled and the heater fitted in place it looks like this from the underside:
Note that the fuel line is already (temporarily) connected in this picture. I placed the little fuel pump on the righthand inside of the chassis. Like this it is well protected from splashing water and (most) dirt. I used existing holes and stainless hardware.
Once the connection to the tank was in place I've filled the entire fuel line with diesel. For this purpose I used a small homemade 12V pulse generator. Two benefits from this: - I was certain that the fuel lines and pump were in good working order. - The Webasto heater started at the first attempt. Note that multiple failed starts will lead to a software "fail" which needs to be restored by a certified Webasto dealer. Something I definitely wanted to avoid from happening. The installation is further completed by fitting the air inlet and exhaust hoses. Also the waterproof connectors are mounted here. All these materials are supplied with the standard Webasto kit.
The heater control is mounted on the front side of the cubby box.
All electric wiring is tucked away behind the plastic panels around the rear door (advantage of a Station Wagon ). The pilar next to the left front seat is used to guide the cables down into the battery box. Click image to enlarge On this picture one can easily see both cables. One cable needs to be extended up to the heater control knob inside the cubby box, the other one goes to the battery via a new fuse box. All these connections are soldered and fitted with crimp sleeves. Note the additional ground distribution block that I've installed here. Click image to enlarge In order to nicely route the cables from the battery box to the cubby box I made a couple of holes in the aluminium plate and finished them with pieces of flexible grommet strip.
I've made 4 holes so that I can fit additional 12 V wiring (e.g. for a small DC-AC converter that will sit on the rear of the cubby box). Also the wires to the cruise-control buttons fitted on the cubby box will pass here. All cables are fitted inside protective sleeves as used by Land-Rover also. When all is finished the heater looks like this:
The control and power cables to the Webasto enter the housing near the top side but Webasto provides the possibility to choose at which side one wants to route the cables. So I installed these at the rear side to get maximum protection. It is clear that there still is sufficient space between the heater and the underside of the rear seat. This is required to prevent the heater from running too hot. Initially I was considering to possibly extend the hot-air outlet, near the left side of the picture, with a piece of tubing followed by a Y-piece to better direct the heat to the front and rear. But with the Webasto now in use for nearly two years I found that the heat output is more than sufficient to cope with heating the complete interior of my 110. An added benefit is that I can enjoy getting in a warm car on a cold morning Peter,
Defender 110 StaWa - Td5 Defender 110 HCPU - Puma Defender 90 Soft Top - Td5 |
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7th Oct 2012 7:29pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024
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thats exactly what i am looking for, thank you Peter.
that is where i am also looking to install the unit. How much room is there from the top of the unit to the underside of the seat? 20mm? i see the carpet all went back in underneath to so that obviously is an issue getting too hot then. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Oct 2012 5:43am |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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I run one also, see http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic7878-30.html
The heater itself (body plastics) never get really hot. I have close contact with the underside of the seats, no problems so far. The reason for leaving space is the internal ambient air sensor, if you dont have air around the housing this one will slowly heat up by the heater and tell the electronics to heat less as it thinks the ambient temp is higher than reality.You can replace this sensor with an external one to get a better measuring point. One thing that was not mentioned, and what i like best about this overkill heater is that you don't need to run your engine to get heat. If you plug into the water system you still need to circulate water, even with an electrical pump the heating reduces quickly, 15min max and coolant temp is so low you don't notice it anymore. When parked up for longer time waiting in the car it is heaven, engine stays warm longer as i dont use the coolant temp to heat the cabin and the webasto easily toasts the interior to 30+ temps. 2cents  |
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8th Oct 2012 9:39am |
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| jasong4110 Member Since: 18 Oct 2009 Location: Henley On Thames Posts: 268  
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I am just about to fit The Eberspacher D2 and did consider fitting it under my seats however I felt that I would loose storage under the seats if it went there and it would get in the way. I therefore decided to move my ECU and stick it under the drivers seat. I have had a box made to move the ECU under the Cubby box but that will happen once I have replaced the engine.
Click image to enlarge I plan to fit vents (controllable type) to the front and rear of the seat box and a pipe between the drivers and passengers seat fitting vents to the passenger one, the idea behind this is the pipe will also heat the batteries. I did also note though that you can buy a box to allow fitting of the heater under the cubby box which could have been an easier option. Jason. |
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8th Oct 2012 9:57am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024
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under the seats is an idea, not sure about how weather proof it would be in there. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Oct 2012 12:34pm |
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| jasong4110 Member Since: 18 Oct 2009 Location: Henley On Thames Posts: 268
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I figured my ECU had sat under there for enough years without getting trashed!! if you are worried stick it under the cubby box, if I had seen one of these first I would have gone this way as it would have saved me a load of work!! http://nakatanenga-tours.de/shop/article_N...DNAHK-5%26 Jason. |
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8th Oct 2012 12:41pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024
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excellent help, thank you do you have an external air sensor or does yours run off the internal one? or is that the ref to the checktemp part of your right up? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Oct 2012 12:47pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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the answer to that is a bit complicated
You have a temp sensor (internal or external) and a rheostat (the control knob on the dash) which control the amount of fuel that goes into the burner. (so if it is cold and you put the rheostat in the hot-hot position, the webasto will burn WOT) If you put the rheostat in the same position, the burn rate will in hot ambient temp: be lowered, in even colder ambient temp: be increased. BUT it will not turn off at a set temp or balance between rheostat setting and ambient temp, it will just go down till the LOW setting/rate programmed in the webasto ECU) The external temp sensor is there so you can mount it where you want, eg inside the cabin if your heater is mounted outside. This avoids the burner heating at a too high level and overheating the cabin. Thats the webasto part and as you see not a "thermostatic" functionality. The checktemp is in my case used as thermostat, it commands the webasto to fire up if below a certain temp. BUT the burn rate is defined by the position of the original rheostat. Note that this rheostat is both a switch (2pins) and a varistor (2 pins). In the OFF position the varistor is in lowest position, so the burn rate is set LOW. (the on-off signal can then come from remote or thermostat or other switches) I still have the internal sensor and no problems. Hope that explains it a bit. |
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8th Oct 2012 1:00pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024
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i am not too worries about controlling the heat output currently. i am more concerned that mounting it similar to yours would result in system lock out if the internal temp sensor found it getting too hot there. this is obviously not the case.
next question, where can you get long lenghts of conduit for hot air output - eg long enough to run to a roof tent! Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Oct 2012 4:30pm |
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| Peter Td4 Member Since: 23 Oct 2010 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Posts: 227
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Hi James,
I've just checked and there is about 45mm of space between the Webasto top and seat bottom. Overheating is certainly not an issue as there is plenty of room around the unit. As tatra said, the housing itself runs quite cool (except near the hot air exhaust, but this is well away from the carpet). The base of the unit sits on a rubber seal and the carpet has been removed in this area to make sure the unit sits flat on the metalwork and cannot come into contact with the hot exhaust pipe. So basically it's only a small patch of carpet that has been cut away .
I also find this type of air heater preferable over the Webasto water heater. Not only is the fuel and electricity consumption much less, it heats up very quickly and is much more efficient than the standard Td5 heater. In combination with the self installed heated windscreen and Defendervent demister vents I'm perfectly happy with the set-up. Left to do is mirror heaters . Peter,
Defender 110 StaWa - Td5 Defender 110 HCPU - Puma Defender 90 Soft Top - Td5 |
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8th Oct 2012 8:11pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024
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Hi Peter, thank you. looking at mine in the same place its approx 25mm from the seat base.
Looking at Tatra's it seems to be in contact with or as near as so i dont think i will have any issues there. thank you. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Oct 2012 8:18pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024
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Tatra,
Looking at your instructions on adding the Webasto water heater remote to make the airtop work, i have read it several times and not being good (at all) with electrics am still struggling to understand what needs to be done
so from the remote box i take the signal wire (A) (ie not the earth or constant 12v) and then reading this bit:
put the wire at (A) to pin 3 on the Airtop multiplug???? which is pin 3??? or how do i find the wire which is the signal wire from the thermostat. and by thermostate do you mean the one supplied with the kit referred to as Reohstat? mechanics i can do (well sort of) electrics!!!!  Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Oct 2012 8:39pm |
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