 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > the NEW 2.2 puma defender. |
 
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298   
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talking to someone from land rover briefly last night and looks like the 2.2 puma (apparently the 2.2 in the freelander is a peugeot jobbie?) engine is on the way in the defender with more power and better economy. Basicially the same engine although they've got Ford to change the position of the turbo (don't know why) and they've waterproofed the engine - wondered if they've managed to waterproof the fuel tank?
obviously I can't verify this but would love to know more......I wonder if there's anychance of it falling into the lower road tax bracket? - now that would be actractive. what can you tell me  |
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11th Oct 2009 6:36am |
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| TallPaul Member Since: 28 Aug 2007 Location: Nr Reading Posts: 270 
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Taking into account the ford website that says:
Diesel front-wheel drive (FWD) 2.2-litre Duratorq TDCi engine, available in three power and torque configurations: • 85 PS/250 Nm – Durashift 5-speed manual transmission • 115 PS/300 Nm – Durashift 6-speed manual transmission • 140 PS/350 Nm – Durashift 6-speed manual transmission Diesel rear-wheel drive (RWD) 2.4-litre Duratorq TDCi engine, available in three power and torque configurations: • 100PS/285Nm - Durashift 5 speed manual transmission or Durashift 6-speed manual transmission with optional cDPF • 115 PS/310 Nm – Durashift 6-speed manual transmission • 140 PS/375 Nm – Durashift 6-speed manual transmission 3.2-litre Duratorq TDCi engine: • 200 PS/470 Nm – Durashift 6-speed manual transmission Diesel all-wheel drive (AWD) 2.4-litre Duratorq TDCi engine: • 140 PS/375 Nm – Durashift 6-speed manual transmission Petrol (RWD) 2.3-litre Duratec engine (LPG/CNG compatible): • 145 PS/210 Nm – Durashift 5-speed manual transmission Would seem to indicate the 2.2 and 2.4 have the same power output in the transit roughly, now the Defender has more power than the Transit, but I can't see the 2.2 being a bit output above the 2.4? Of course the figure that stands out for the hard core landrover fan is the 3.2 
Can't see LR making any changes to the Defender due to associated costs unless it saves them a load of CO2 output, as they need to get their average CO2 down, and they are still selling 5l V8's in RR's.... |
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11th Oct 2009 9:19am |
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| TallPaul Member Since: 28 Aug 2007 Location: Nr Reading Posts: 270
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Hmm, it looks like the 2.2 in the same transit as the 2.4 has lower emissions, might make sense for Defender?
http://www.vca.gov.uk/vandata/nojs/vehicles.aspx?vt=5 Question is when, as I want to buy a Defender, and Tax goes up in Jan again  |
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11th Oct 2009 9:53am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6605 
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See the previous discussion: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic1840.html
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11th Oct 2009 10:13am |
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| Sonic3d Member Since: 28 Jan 2008 Location: Ross on Wye Posts: 1505 
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The 2.2 in the Freelander is a Peugeot Citroen unit
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11th Oct 2009 10:32am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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I wonder how the 2.2 140ps compares to the 2.4 140ps in terms of emmisions?
and I wonder why LR would want the turbo position to be different - not like they're struggling with space ....are they? |
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11th Oct 2009 6:43pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586 
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Very strange!!!!
2.2L and 2.4L came from the same family (ZSD Engine) the only differences are 2.4L 89.9 mm bore, 94.6 mm stroke 2.2L 86.0 mm bore, 94.6 mm stroke (installed on past 2.2 TDCi Ford Mondeo too) and the 2.4 Puma is just homologated from the UK Mil. Forces....... Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition 
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11th Oct 2009 8:13pm |
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| caribcat Member Since: 11 Jun 2009 Location: Anglesey Posts: 97 
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I was told by Bell auto services that the 2.2 would be much more tunable, flexible and therefore economical. He recons it's a way better engine.
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13th Oct 2009 8:48pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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I repeat Very strange!!!! 2.2L and 2.4L came from the same family (ZSD Engine) the only differences are 2.4L 89.9 mm bore, 94.6 mm stroke (installed on German Galaxy with 180 CV) 2.2L 86.0 mm bore, 94.6 mm stroke (installed on past 2.2 TDCi Ford Mondeo too) Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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14th Oct 2009 7:30am |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110  
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Humm,
I supose that you are talking about the motor based on the PSA DW12 engine released in 2008. Well, I made a little search in Internet and really I'm surpise that this new motor have more power output than the current 2.4L Puma (172 hp/129 kW in this motor vs 135 hp/101 kW in the Puma). Also torque is improved from 285 N·m/ 210 lb·ft to 400 N·m/ 295 ft·lbf that can be boost to 420 N·m/ 310 ft·lbf But anyway, take in account that those motors are That sounds good, but why not a nice 3.6 V8 with 266 hp/199 kW and 640 N·m /472 ft·lbf one or at least the 2.7 one with 201 hp/150 kW and 325 ft·lbf (440 N·m)?. Please note that the 2.2 version has been used for medium VAN size cars (except Freelander and Mondeo) i.e. Ford Mondeo (1500 kg), Ford S-max (2300 kg), Ford Galaxy (2500 kg), Freelander (1770 kg), Citroen C8 (1837 kg) and Peugeot 807 (2.530). With a Defender with a current weight of 3 tons looks like this motor is still a liitle bit underestimated for the Defender weight (is just a thought), maybe that can be corrected taking away some weight from the car, but that can compromise the stiffness. Well, may be is better give some time to the time... Cheers Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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14th Oct 2009 12:38pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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Edo,
the ZSD422 (our engine) is installed on German versione of the Galaxy with 180 CV and 45kgm NOT SO BAD!!! But where are looking for e "pull" engine, not for a passengers car engine..... Freelander engine have a little bit of torque, but it hasn,t the same "pull" capacity!!! and durability (try with a big trailer on sand with the Freelander......) Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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14th Oct 2009 1:06pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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different injectors (piezo, ours are with solenoids for bad diesel), different camshafts, different turbo Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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14th Oct 2009 5:51pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5035 
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The thing to remember is the new line up of engines, including the 5l v8's are more economical and produce less than the outgoing 4l v8's Mike |
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15th Oct 2009 12:23pm |
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| TallPaul Member Since: 28 Aug 2007 Location: Nr Reading Posts: 270
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Yes, but its still a high CO2 emissions unit compared to say a 2.2 Diesel
 My point was that unless it brings big CO2 savings over the 2.4 I can't see them spending the money to make the change. If it does, then it will of course be worth it.
I am all for better consumption and lower emissions figures myself, just a shame landrover are not! We have a Disco3 and they sent us a letter saying "new disco 4, lower emissions by xx% and fuel economy by yy%", according to their percentages the D4 would be in the £185 tax bracket not the £410 the D3 is in! Of course when you look into it, they are comparing the D4 3L auto to the D3 Auto, and providing no 3L manual in D4, so actually D4 has identical emissions to our D3 as its a manual. Don't understand (cost I asusme) why no manual D4, emissions would be lower, it would be £185 tax bracket, and their "average" for Disco would be lower, as well as those adverts "range from AA to BB", they could have a lower from figure. Anyway, rant over, 2.2 please if its more fuel and tax efficient, just so long as it arrives soon and does not have a load of new LR gremlins living in it |
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15th Oct 2009 2:10pm |
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