 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Choosing Roll Cages |
 
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10382  
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Yeah, they are ugly. I agree whole heartedly  |
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17th Jun 2012 7:27pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2639  
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I went with the SD full external cage on my current 90. Had the P&P internal / external on my last 110.
The reason for the SD was that i need to get the 90 into my garage and with the cage it stands at 6ft 8 3/4. The other cages that i researched at the time stood higher off the body work, i am literally down to mm clearances to get in and out. Terrafirma hold this type of cage in stock and can supply very quickly. At the time i ordered mine from Keith Gott Land Rovers in Alton on a Tuesday and collected it that Friday. Between myself and my brother we fitted it over four days. Scary part is drilling the first hole! Devon 4X4 quoted 6 weeks to deliver the same cage (and were more expensive). For my 110 the delivery time from P&P was 6-7 weeks at the time. Then i had a further delay as part of my order had been sent to someone else and i had the other customers parts. The SD cage is supplied with external blanking plates so you can cover the holes in the body work, install the inner body work to chassis sections and use the external blanking sections to plug the holes until your ready to continue another day / weekend. The blanks are in fact there to help bond the silicon adhesive between the body work and the internal plates. No issue with quality of the powder coating on either cage though another member hear had a big ding dong with P&P over the powder coated sections they received. As the cage is not a fully welded in MSA spec there was no addition increase in insurance premium. A couple of pics  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Mark |
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17th Jun 2012 9:12pm |
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| BigWheels Member Since: 21 Mar 2010 Location: Somerset Posts: 1405 
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My reason for a roll cage follows a mishap I had in my Series 2, my potter-around project Landy when it rolled over on its side. A SJ410 type scare.
My Puma is way heavier & more stable, but I want to protect the expensive bodywork as well as myself, should a road accident occur, as well as when off roading. (For the S2, which now has a seat belt, radial tyres & ET high back seat, a loop will do.) From what I've read, I would get D44 to fit a cage, even it its a wait, unless I can find an expert business nearer. Perhaps buying an internal loop (for the Puma) separately to an external roll cage might be a compromise? Do fitted roll cages add to thievery appeal? Land Rover Defenders. 67 years heritage, minimal appearance changes, still going strong all over the world. Not a fashion vehicle, but fashionable to own. Made for the needy, not the greedy. Ta ta Defender |
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17th Jun 2012 9:31pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17387 
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A very interesting thread, this! I have been thinking of getting a cage, either SD or P&P for my 110 DC and have myself been trying to weigh up the respective merits, so it couldn't have come at a better time.
Personally I think that the SD cages look a little neater and closer-fitting than the P&P, although functionally I doubt there's much to choose. The horizontal bar just above the waistline on the rear body is lower on the SD and looks nocer, and the fit round the 'screen is tighter too. Can anyone with experience of both types tell me how the fittings that pass through the body panels compare? From what I have read I have the impression that the P&P instructions simply say drill four holes for the four bolts, so the body is sandwiched between the two plates, but the SD instructions seem to specify a rectangular hole. Does the SD fitting still sandwich the body panel, and if so why not four holes as on the P&P cage? Also, does anyone know if the 110 SW type cage from either manufacturer will fit over an Ifor Williams canopy on a DC? I don't see why it shouldn't, but the canopy is marginally wider at the top than the LR roofline (it the same width as the gutters so I think the cage should fit).
I doubt that either an SD or P&P cage will do much to prevent panel damage in the even of a serious RTC, since they are of the type which absorbs energy by deforming. They will however greatly increase the chances of you surviving. |
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18th Jun 2012 9:39am |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6678
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I really can't see how effective any rollcage would be in anything other than a gentle roll if it isn't braced diagonally from one side to the other like Pams ....
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18th Jun 2012 9:44am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17387
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Take a look at http://www.safetydevices.com/media/images/?sector=expedition and you will see that a cage can make all the difference. These images are not "gentle" rolls! |
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18th Jun 2012 10:15am |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6678
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Exactly as I said, they all have internal diagonal bracing .... |
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18th Jun 2012 10:20am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17387
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I don't think there's a single diagonal brace in any of the first four pictures of wrecked, cage-fitted Defenders. It is admittedly hard to tell in the first pic with the vehicle upside-down, but 2/6, 3/6 and 4/6 appear all to be standard SD cages with no transverse diagonal brace.
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18th Jun 2012 10:57am |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6678
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3/6 appears to have an internal cage as well as external as you can see an upright through the open door.
I think this one of those discussions that will have as many people swearing by their roll cage without bracing as those that have. I for one would not seriously trust the integrity of a roll cage in a roll that didn't have diagonal bracing, born out by the fact that it is a requirement to have diagonal bracing in any 'Motorsport' fitted cage |
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18th Jun 2012 11:10am |
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| Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015  
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I looked for about 6 months before finally going for the SD caage.... They are VERY similar, but SD have been making them for years and P&P haven't been around for as long so blatantly 'copied' their idea.
Here are the things that persuaded me to make my choice in no particular order: 1- Fit (as mentioned). The SD cage fits perfectly and it follows the line of the vehicle. The P&P has gaps of 1" in places and nearly 3" in other places, they also don't have the same tollerences- every P&P cage I have seen has had slightly different gaps- some are closer than others. 2- Quality. No offence to the British workforce, but an Eastern European is as good if not better at welding than anyone in the UK. The one item I did order from P&P (snorkel) was very very shoddy- it wasn't a close fit, the inside wasn't painted and was still full of swarf from the manufacture process. 3- Saftey. SD has been manufacturing cages for all sorts of things for decades including Camel Trophy, WRC etc. To me that ticks all the boxes when it comes to knowing what they are doing. I would say it comes down to preference. As long as you look at what is out there and then are happy with whatever you decide on. I bought mine from All-makes, and fitted by OEC which by the end of it all it worked out cheaper than a P&P cage fitted by themselves. OEC also reported back that fitting was straight forward and on the 2 occasions they weren't 100% sure they phoned SD where they were put through to their fitting team who helpped them out over the phone and also sent more pictures through email. I am very happy with my cage. It has been on for 2 years.... and the only sign of corrosion is on 2 of the fitting bolts. Also- a question above about the mounting. SD do squares as the internal/ base parts of the cage have raised sections that mate firm against the upper parts. This means that the whole cage is in contact with itself unlike the P&P which then has alloy panels between the cage sections. Won't make a huge difference but the SD cage is less likely cause damage to body panels in a slight twist. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Glyn  :sheep:
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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18th Jun 2012 1:01pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17387
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I think you'll find that 3/6 is a standard L172 station wagon cage with an internal 'B' hoop and everything else external. No diagonal transverse bracing. Link |
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18th Jun 2012 1:30pm |
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| Merlin Member Since: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Newmarket Posts: 981
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Go Whitbread, it's welded!
Merlin [/img] |
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18th Jun 2012 1:46pm |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6678
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Yes, I think you are right |
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18th Jun 2012 1:48pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17387
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Glyn, many thanks for this explanation, now I understand! Just as a matter of interest, would you mind telling me (pm if you prefer) how much OEC charged to fit your cage? |
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18th Jun 2012 1:52pm |
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