 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Defender M57 engine cooling issue |
 
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2651  
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First step would be to actually establish what temperature it is running at - the Tdi gauge will not give you any useful information.
Either fit a reputable aftermarket gauge with a dual numbers on (VDO make good ones) or use diagnostics to read live temperatures off the ECU. |
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1st Dec 2024 9:10am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5720 
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As above.
You need to KNOW what temperature really is. |
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1st Dec 2024 10:29am |
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| lb73 Member Since: 27 May 2016 Location: North Wales Posts: 293 
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Thanks both, will upgrade the gauge/sender this week and see what the temperature readings are. 1999 300TDI 110 CSW BMW 3.0
1972 VW Beetle 1200 2002 Dax Rush 3.9 V8 2012 Audi A3 tdi 2020 Renault Kangoo electric |
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1st Dec 2024 11:46am |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2235  
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The M57 likes to run bit hotter than a 300. Mine generally runs at 92-94°C read from the engine sensor on the canbus, so if that's what you're running at, that's fine.
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. 50 Shades of Pennine Grey |
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1st Dec 2024 3:13pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8043  
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Ok, so.it ran fine until thermostat stuck. You changed stat and now it still runs hotter than you wish.
Remove the new stat and chuck it in a pan and check opening temp and how much it opens. I expect the new stat is not performing correctly I have found a massive variation in m57 stat opening temps and how mich they open, even from same supplier.. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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1st Dec 2024 8:54pm |
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| lb73 Member Since: 27 May 2016 Location: North Wales Posts: 293
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Thanks for the replies both, aiming to pick up a new gauge from demon tweeks tomorrow. Will also check the thermostat as advised - the replacement was a Gates version from House of Torque, any other makes I should get or avoid? 1999 300TDI 110 CSW BMW 3.0
1972 VW Beetle 1200 2002 Dax Rush 3.9 V8 2012 Audi A3 tdi 2020 Renault Kangoo electric |
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1st Dec 2024 10:19pm |
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| tommobot Member Since: 15 May 2018 Location: Stratford Upon Avon Posts: 23
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I've found if it sit in high gears with the M57 with low revs the temps rise, as shown on the on ODB data.
Unless the engine speed is high enough, I find a blip down into 6/7th gear for a second or two will get the water moving around suitably again. To be fair the ODB engine temp is taken right off the water coming out of the block, at the rear I belive, wheras my temp gauge is post rad so perhaps may not be a major issue as I don't see the phyiscal temp gauge re-act too much so the radiator must be coping, but the ODB data temp rising and rising is very unconfortable. I've asked a similar question on the M57 facebook group, and it seems to be hit and miss, but lots of people do seem to have an issue with this. I'm planning to look at fitting a electric water pump added into the system, to shove the coolant around at a decent rate. As the issue is only (for me in 7th and 8th gears) I would probably add a output from the gearbox controller to activate the EWP only when in 7th and 8th, and potentially having a master override somehow.. (if thats even possible  ) |
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2nd Dec 2024 10:22am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8043
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Ewp is 2nd stage.
I have 12 new stats here all.marked 88deg. Worst didn't didn't start opening until 95deg, and worse opener only opened 6mm. Other went over double that.ended up with my own custom made stat. Once stat is sorted the flow rate may need looking at. I am 6 speed. 60mph is 1800rpm. Coolant needs to move faster. Ewp, smaller water pump pulley, aux pump in heater side are options to consider. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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2nd Dec 2024 9:27pm |
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| tommobot Member Since: 15 May 2018 Location: Stratford Upon Avon Posts: 23
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Regarding the EWP, I'd heard of the Craig Davies EWP, but not really any others;
This is from a thread on PH, which a guy is retrofitting a audi engine into a boxter but seems a decent product: Seems a decent and effective solution! Electric water pump from Stewart Components has arrived:  Click image to enlarge This one in 32mm input/output so it will go straight into the lower rad hose with a bracket off the sump to carry it. Idea here is that it will function as a boost pump for low RPM use as well as an after run pump to keep the coolant circulating after engine off. Usefully this is exactly what these pumps are designed for! They're quite a clever bit of kit too using a brushless motor in a high bypass design, so they don't create very much restriction at all when turned off or out flowed by the mechanical pump. Unlike most electric water pumps they're desgined to run in tandem with a mechanical pump and of course that means they fail safe too, I already know they work well as we ran a very similar version on some 24 hour cars a few years back with great results. A very nice American chap showing function: |
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3rd Dec 2024 8:18am |
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| BuckBlu110 Member Since: 19 Apr 2014 Location: in the pub Posts: 714 
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A couple of thoughts on this as I had cooling issues before I fitted the Alisport rad to my 301d1 which seems to be behaving now.
Any way it might be worth noting that the m57 in the l322 (301d1) has a auxiliary water pump fitted as standard and having a quick read of the workshop manual, it says that the electric air con fan is used in conjunction with the viscous fan for cooling. I’d be interested to see how many of you guys are running air con too and whether it makes a difference. Granted those with later engines will likely have an electric fan instead of a viscous fan but the principle of two fans remains the same. I’ve also found a coolant flush and correct 50/50 mix seemed to make a difference of a couple of degrees with mine also. |
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3rd Dec 2024 10:10am |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2161 
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50/50 mix is oft repeated on the internet BUT in practice is simply wrong as you need to check the manufacturer's instructions for the specific anti-freeze concentrate your are using...... majority are 'best' at circa 33% concentrate to water
pure water is a far better 'coolant' than anti-freeze and higher concentrations simply increase temp issues unless your in an Artic type environment which is why these so called "waterless" coolants are nothing more than a gimmick |
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3rd Dec 2024 11:05am |
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| BuckBlu110 Member Since: 19 Apr 2014 Location: in the pub Posts: 714
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50/50 is what the workshop manual says, and the same for the coolant I’m using
I believe bmw recommendation the later, alloy bock engines, the same 50/50 mix but that may be their own branded coolant. As you say, the coolant manufacturer will know what’s best for their coolant. |
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3rd Dec 2024 11:28am |
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| lb73 Member Since: 27 May 2016 Location: North Wales Posts: 293
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Following on from my original post, a VDO temp gauge and sender has now replaced the o/e items. I’ve also removed the Gates thermostat on the engine tested it in some boiling water (admittedly temp wasn’t tested) and witness zero opening of the stat. Hence I then bought another - this time a Vernet. Tried the boiling water test again before fitting to the engine and again had no movement . Surprised to see two stats in a row that don’t work or I’m I testing it wrong
Click image to enlarge 1999 300TDI 110 CSW BMW 3.0 1972 VW Beetle 1200 2002 Dax Rush 3.9 V8 2012 Audi A3 tdi 2020 Renault Kangoo electric |
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6th Dec 2024 6:19pm |
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