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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 62
Australia 
TD5 ECU not retaining injector codes
Hi,

Starting a new thread in my tale of getting my 2002 Defender Td5 running (from https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic94248.html)...

Situation:

    * Modified ECU to disable immobiliser (by rewriting addresses 1EC to 1F1 of 93C66 EEPROM to 0x00) - per https://www.aulro.com/afvb/electronic-diag...lizer.html
    * Ran fine for a few hundred K's
    * Battery failed, replaced with a spare which was getting on, drove fine for a bit more
    * one day failed to start (cranked but with no ignition)
    * went through chain of diagnosis and deploying the parts canon per above (including a brand new battery)
    * found that in nanocom injector codes had reset
    * set codes to correct value
    * started easily
    * then failed to restart (cranks, doesn't fire), injector codes had reset
    * nanocom sometimes shows codes as retained, sometimes not
    * no faults or codes
    * No immobiliser indicator on dash, shows as non-robust and immobilised on nanocom


I have a spare, unmodded ECU that I can try, but I will need to restate my 10AS or do the same mods to it...

Questions:

    * Has anyone else done the same ECU mod?
    * Is the immobiliser limited to controlling the starter? Could it be disabiling the injectors too?
    * Does the nanocom reliably show the state of the injectors, could these be read failures?
    * Where exactly are the injector codes stored? Is it on the 93C66 as well?
    * Could an incorrect set of codes really cause a non-start issue?
Post #1056181 3rd Jan 2025 8:41am
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MadTom



Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 628
Czech Republic 1999 Defender 130 Td5 HCPU Baltic Blue
Injector codes, gas pedal type and immobilizer informations are all stored in the 93c66 eeprom. Nanocom reads them fine. It looks like wrong solder joint in ECU, or broken resistor between CPU and EEPROM resulting in nonstable connection inside of ECU. Or brokem EEPROM memory. I have seen all of these problems in TD5 ECUs. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo Smile
Post #1056215 3rd Jan 2025 3:19pm
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2187
2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green
If it makes you feel better it doesnt matter if they are coded in or not. So your issue isnt that. Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent
Post #1056233 3rd Jan 2025 7:06pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 62
Australia 
MadTom wrote:
Injector codes, gas pedal type and immobilizer informations are all stored in the 93c66 eeprom. Nanocom reads them fine. It looks like wrong solder joint in ECU, or broken resistor between CPU and EEPROM resulting in nonstable connection inside of ECU. Or brokem EEPROM memory. I have seen all of these problems in TD5 ECUs.


I will test around the EEPROM.

One thing that occurs to me..: I left the ORG pin floating as being rusty at SMD work I damaged the pad and it is only needed if using 16 bit words. It didn’t look like the pad was actually connected?

Do you know what address the injector codes are written to?

Have you successfully disabled the immobiliser and removed the 10AS?

Do you have a circuit diagram for the ECU? Or any write up of your findings? Would love to put such info on the defender td5 wiki.

Last edited by Dr Phibes on 3rd Jan 2025 9:38pm. Edited 2 times in total
Post #1056239 3rd Jan 2025 7:59pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 62
Australia 
bankz5152 wrote:
If it makes you feel better it doesnt matter if they are coded in or not. So your issue isnt that.


So any random code is OK to start, and is only needed for performance at higher RPM? I did wonder about that. Not sure what else I might have changed to make it start. I had the 10AS partially connected but the nanocom cant see it because of the changes to the EEPROM. Time to reinstate the 10AS and try another ECU…
Post #1056240 3rd Jan 2025 8:04pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 62
Australia 
Put another ECU in, and reconnected 10AS as original.

ECU retains the injector codes OK.

However I can't get it to start (cranks OK), and I am convinced the engine/ECU is immobilised and the injectors aren't firing. Learning using my nanocom reports success but when I check the status I get "the ECU is immobilized".

I have Arm on lock set to disabled, and other 10AS settings as recommended on AULRO. And when I mnake changes they are saved...

Is the only option to enter an EKA code - where I will need to wire up a button to emulate a door switch?!?
Post #1056275 4th Jan 2025 4:40am
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jonny



Member Since: 10 Mar 2013
Location: North Wilts
Posts: 165
If you have access to a vag com cable, it might be worth having a look with:

https://andrewrevill.co.uk/MEMSToolsIndex.htm
Post #1056290 4th Jan 2025 11:04am
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 62
Australia 
I do actually have such a cable - a vcds clone. Have you used it yourself? Can it access more than the nanocom?
Post #1056291 4th Jan 2025 11:11am
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jonny



Member Since: 10 Mar 2013
Location: North Wilts
Posts: 165
Yes - I've used it myself. I've not got a Nanocom, but from what I understand it can do pretty much everything a Nanocom can, and more.

There's options to check immobiliser status, enable/disable, reprogram the 10AS (but I think that needs a slightly different cable), check live status, as well as map editing for fuelling etc which I don't think the Nanocom can do directly.

Support for the NNN ecu's is a little rough around the edges in that it doesn't name all of the 116 tables / scalars etc in the ECU automatically, but the main ones are there. If you have access to the discotd5 table definitions they can be imported to name more tables, but I can't get hold of the chap that runs that site to donate for those definitions Sad

If you have the cable already it's probably worth a look Smile
Post #1056293 4th Jan 2025 11:24am
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jonny



Member Since: 10 Mar 2013
Location: North Wilts
Posts: 165
Re: TD5 ECU not retaining injector codes
Dr Phibes wrote:
Hi,
* Is the immobiliser limited to controlling the starter? Could it be disabiling the injectors too?


https://andrewrevill.co.uk/MEMS3ImmobiliserDelete.htm

Quote:
All of the ECUs fuelling calculations end up with one single number – the injector pulse width. This is the time for which the injector needs to be open in order to inject an appropriate quantity of fuel. One of the very last things the ECU does is to check a number of flags which control engine immobilisation under different conditions (some of which were related to factory development mode code). If any of these flags result in immobilisation being disabled, it skips over the critical instruction, otherwise it overwrites the calculated injector pulse width with 0, meaning that the injector is open for zero time (doesn’t open at all).
Post #1056294 4th Jan 2025 11:27am
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 62
Australia 
jonny wrote:
Yes - I've used it myself. I've not got a Nanocom, but from what I understand it can do pretty much everything a Nanocom can, and more.

There's options to check immobiliser status, enable/disable, reprogram the 10AS (but I think that needs a slightly different cable), check live status, as well as map editing for fuelling etc which I don't think the Nanocom can do directly.

Support for the NNN ecu's is a little rough around the edges in that it doesn't name all of the 116 tables / scalars etc in the ECU automatically, but the main ones are there. If you have access to the discotd5 table definitions they can be imported to name more tables, but I can't get hold of the chap that runs that site to donate for those definitions Sad

If you have the cable already it's probably worth a look Smile


Cool. Now I recall I had a go a few months back but couldn’t connect; probably because I don’t have a real FTDI chip in my cable.

It would be cool if it could access the EEPROM addresses that if zeroed allow the 10AS to be deleted. Rather than having to desolder the chip and use an arduino etc.

I am still flummoxed as to why my seemingly OK modified ECU with 10AS delete stopped working reliably after a battery replacement. I’m going to try replacing the EEPROM.

The 10AS cable is probably for the kline.
Post #1056295 4th Jan 2025 11:37am
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jonny



Member Since: 10 Mar 2013
Location: North Wilts
Posts: 165
It works fine for me on a clone cable, which was advertised as having an FTDI chipset. Depending on how recently you tried, it might be worth having another go as there's comments on there about removing dependencies on the FTDI chipset - just needing a cable with VAG COM KKL 409.1 compatibility. The 10AS unit pinout appears to be different, so an adaptor is needed.

It should let you edit addresses directly as well, not via the tables.
Post #1056310 4th Jan 2025 5:28pm
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MadTom



Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 628
Czech Republic 1999 Defender 130 Td5 HCPU Baltic Blue
Just an idea - revert back original EEPROM, connect engine ECU with 10AS, let engine ECU learn security code and try if it works again. Simply, something went wrong, so go back to original.
I have engine ECU schematics, but sorry, I'll not share it, I spend quite a lot of time to create it. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo Smile
Post #1056410 5th Jan 2025 8:58pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 62
Australia 
Are you keeping the information to yourself because you want to make money from it?

I’m going to put a new EEPROM in and reprogram using my original dump. I think I damaged it by overheating.

Can you please confirm that it’s the ST M93C66-RMN3TP and whether the org pin is floating? Does it matter - is the address scheme the same in either case?
Post #1056414 5th Jan 2025 9:09pm
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