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Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3784

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

Puma Exhaust Mod,...Not worth it?

I've often said that modifying an exhaust on a Puma is not really worth the trouble, as the standard system is pretty good, unless of course ya're gonna have a full race engine etc, but for an engine that's just reasonably modified, it ain't necessary to do the exhaust.
I just received my October copy of LRO International, which on page 130 describes the fitting of an exhaust with before & after dyno figures....a gain of .2 of a HP, & 7 ft lbs!!....for a cost of ONE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED POUNDS!!!
Now I ain't saying the "bum dyno" ain't gonna register substantial gains with a bit of extra rumble etc,....which in reality doesn't mean a thing, when the REAL dyno results are there to see. Of course ya've always got,..ah it feels this, feels that, feel that if frees up the engine etc etc,...but guys the resuls, the REAL results are plain to see, and If I'd spent those funds, for what in reality amounts to a bit of extra noise, I would not be happy.
And bear in mind, this is a modified car, so it should be more amenable to improvement over a standard exhaust,....POINT TWO of a horse power??!!!
Of course, I now am ready to be flamed!!
Pickles.

21st Nov 2016 8:28pm

Roy5695

Member Since: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 1123

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Indus Silver

I have a straight through from DPF back that cost a mere £150 fitted. Full stainless with a 3" tip.

Makes a bit more noise than normal but nothing major. Plus its still MOT compliant and i know its as free flowing as it can legally be.

I wasn't too fussed about the power increase. I wanted more grunt, I probably to neither but for £150 it was worth a go, not 10x that amount

2011 Defender DCPU 2.2 - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic30623.html

Instagram - @r22oyp

Roy

21st Nov 2016 8:37pm

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3641

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

replacing the centre box with a straight through pipe is worth doing just for the weight saving and reduction in cabin heat DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

21st Nov 2016 8:49pm

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

Some things to note... Although the peak power may only be slightly better... What is the spread like?... Also, What is the comparable time under graph?.. Peak numbers are only part of the story... Although £1200 does seem very expensive... I have Bowler systems on both the 110 and 90 and I think that was the combined cost for both..

Regards

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

21st Nov 2016 9:42pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3784

Standard & modified graphs are pretty much identical,..very minor differences throughout the rev range.
Pickles.

21st Nov 2016 9:48pm

Naks

Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2638

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

Remove cat and centre box, that should be a few quids at the local exhaust shop

--
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged

Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ

22nd Nov 2016 7:40am

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

Any chance we can see the graphs Pickles?

Cheers

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

23rd Nov 2016 5:52pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3784

Best We can do, but I'm sure someone would be able to copy it from the mag better if you require it.
But you can see the torque & power curves,...virtually identical.
Pickles.

Click image to enlarge

23rd Nov 2016 9:32pm

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

Hi Pickles... I think you need to look more carefully at that graph... @2100 rpm where the turbo is starting to really get into it's stride the std system makes 96Hp and 104nm of torque... The replacement system makes 110hp and 111nm of torque this gain looks (obviously if the graph is correct) like it's mainly low down so I would expect that the system has less back pressure enabling the turbo to spool earlier. Interestingly its pretty much exactly where you need it as I myself don't rev either of the trucks pass about 3500rpm...and mostly alot lower as theres not much point going past 3000rpm
In real world terms this system would make a really noticeable difference to how the truck drove on the road... It would feel faster to respond to the 'throttle' input and quicker through the gears if you changed up at a more sensible 2500-2600 rpm or just after peak torque, That way the engine would be back in the area where the exhaust is giving the greatest benefit...

In fact, just reading the description (I only looked at the graph

) I follows exactly the same conclusion as I have had using the Bowler systems...Both the 110 and the Bowler 90 are in stg 1.5 guise and are really nice to drive on the road.

Regards

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

24th Nov 2016 6:45am

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3784

No worrries, I hear what you say,...in that particular rev range, but over the rest of the range?.
However, that is as good as it gets, I believe that over the overall driving range/performance there would be very little in it.
Regards, Pickles.

24th Nov 2016 8:32am

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

I think you'll find that you'd need a bigger turbo to have any meaningful gains further up the rev range... However, you would then probably run into crankshaft issues as the engine really isn't meant to rev'd like a petrol..
Trust me, On the road this would feel like a fairly noticeable gain.

Regards

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

24th Nov 2016 8:21pm

Manxie

Member Since: 29 Oct 2016
Location: Isle Of Man
Posts: 26

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green

Does anyone have the answer to whether or not a certain amount of back pressure is advantageous? For example I've been told that you shouldn't remove the cat and center muffler due to "overspool", and that you should only remove one or the other....

25th Nov 2016 1:19pm

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

Turbo dependant mainly.... some turbo's are designed to have an amount of back pressure, if this is removed then the seals can fail..

Regards

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

25th Nov 2016 5:04pm

Manxie

Member Since: 29 Oct 2016
Location: Isle Of Man
Posts: 26

Does anyone know if this applies to the Puma engine?

25th Nov 2016 7:21pm

Sadi

Member Since: 23 Jul 2015
Location: Windhoek
Posts: 334

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 Heritage Edition SW Grasmere Green

Back pressure...

Some interesting reading here:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/turbocha...rbo-faq-2/

25th Nov 2016 9:28pm

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