 | Home > Off Topic > G Wagon Fail.. |
 
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101   
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piggy simms has / had? a lhd v8 twin turbo diesel one!! very nice
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19th Sep 2011 6:12pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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A new review and makes some interesting comparisons with a defender.
 Click image to enlarge Triple lockers - sexy kit: Click image to enlarge and the Aussies will be lucky when these are demobbed: Click image to enlarge https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-revie...50-review/ |
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30th Aug 2015 8:45am |
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| Mr Fox Member Since: 10 Sep 2011 Location: green & pleasant land Posts: 1037 
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I've owned three (so far), including a G350, and still own one of them. As a Defender owner, I can honestly say, the G-wagon is another level in most, if not all, areas and based on the MSRP, it should be.
With that said, they hold their value well, are built like a tank and, in my experience, are ultra reliable. I haven't used the Defender in serious off-road conditions but I have used the G and it was impressive. As much as I love my Defender, if I had to keep only one, it would be the gelandewagen. PS - what is also often overlooked, and has been mentioned above, is that Mercedes do not manufacture the G-wagon, it is built for them and a lot of that work is done by hand. You can arrange factory tours and if anyone is touring Austria, I would recommend it. If you don't come away wanting to own one, I would be surprised. The level of attention to detail and build quality is second to none. |
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30th Aug 2015 9:13am |
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| kbf1981 Member Since: 22 Feb 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 183
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From the review above:
"Two classics. The Defender was mine at the time. Kills the G-Wagen offroad – better clearance, flex, traction control with the centre dieff being locked, taller tyres (those are 235/85/16, stock size). Also has better payload and cargo space." Personally I think a lot of people buy into the branding of the G *because* it's expensive. They're both great cars, but I don't think there's a vast difference between them in what they can do NOR do I think there's probably a massive difference in cost to make. Land Rover are killing off the D because they don't make enough money on it. It's handbuilt, using traditional methods and construction (like the G), and sold for £20-40k because it's sold as a utility vehicle. Merc are promoting the G which is handbuilt, using traditional methods and construction (like the D), however... because they've got footballers, rappers and other celebrities to drive it... sell it for a BASE price of £85k, up to £500k with the 6x6. So what we're looking at here is marketing. LR should have moved the D upmarket - after all, Khan and Twisted did and both do very well from it. Merc have discontinued selling the utility model G's to the public now, so a normal bloke can't even buy one of the rugged off road ones. Only the blingy ones. Both good cars, but most of what the public see is marketing, not reality. |
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30th Aug 2015 2:30pm |
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| kbf1981 Member Since: 22 Feb 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 183
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Oh, and selling price and cost price RARELY relate. Companies don't do cost plus, they do selling price = what can we get away with?
Case in point most fashion goods are: - perfume = 50p for the bottle, 5p for the liquid, selling price £50 - clothes = cost £3, selling price £20 from asda, £2000 from armani, difference being the adverts The G class is now sold in the same way as a fashion icon, whereas I suspect the D ... they never managed to make it a fashion vehicle until the end. If they'd had made it a fashion vehicle and been able to sell it for £80k+ then I suspect they'd have kept it on, due to the margins then being similar to the rest of the cars in their line up. |
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30th Aug 2015 2:34pm |
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| Mr Fox Member Since: 10 Sep 2011 Location: green & pleasant land Posts: 1037
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Have you ever sat in a G-wagon? Your first comment reads like you've never even been close to one, let alone sat in one or driven one. The money spent on building them is glaringly obvious. Quality product vs how cheap can we build this. The modern G-wagon is comparable to a full fat RR, not a Defender. The built quality is not just on another level, it is completely different. As I said above, I love my Defender but to try and compare it to a modern G-wagon is comical. As someone said on another thread, LR has made very minor changes to the Defender over the past 20-years, where as investment in the G-wagon has not ceased. From airbags (including side protection) to excellent modern engines and transmissions, the G-wagon is only comparable to a 110 Defender because they are both iconic, both 4WD and both heart over head decisions. Simply closing the door of the G-wagon will give you an idea of the quality difference - think bank vault (and there is a reason for this feature). As for who has co-opted the G-wagon, don't forget Kahn and the rest are making Defenders for the same market place. You cannot blame the car because some numpties choose to own them. Lastly, the RHD G was only reintroduced to the UK officially in the past five years. The commercial variants are still readily available in the rest of the world (LHD); however, because the line needs to be switched over to RHD production, it doesn't make sense to stop it long enough to make commercial (461) RHD vehicles and thus we only get the 463. Lastly, the Defender is a great vehicle but that doesn't make me blind to the quality of other autos. |
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30th Aug 2015 3:08pm |
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| cozz Member Since: 15 May 2013 Location: nottingham Posts: 534 |
am94
that's Very true I had a 1989 lwb G wagen, now that was similar to defenders, but the newer g500 v8 etc, are a different league If defenders didn't exist, I would be buying g wagen (prob afford a late 90's one) the cost of parts is astronomical - however, they rarely need them mine was a 300gd, wasn't quick, but you always got the feeling you could start it up on your drive, and drive straight to Africa and back and it'll do it |
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30th Aug 2015 3:32pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I seem to recall that Merc tried to kill off the g wagon a few years back but due to external reasons was persuaded to reconsider?
I'm off to look at what you could get for Defender money on Pistonheads...dreaming of finding a cheap G500 4×4² Click image to enlarge Failing that it will be squinting at an Ibex and pretending... |
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30th Aug 2015 4:41pm |
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| Mr Fox Member Since: 10 Sep 2011 Location: green & pleasant land Posts: 1037
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I don't recall Mercedes stating they were going to kill off LHD production; however, they did discuss possible replacement. As the 461/463 is still sold to various militaries around the world, they aren't purely reliant on civilian sales; however, the obvious downside is that any replacement would ideally have to also appeal to both markets... not an easy task.
The 463 does meet current legislation; however, if pedestrian safety through vehicle design becomes more of an issue in the future, I think the G-wagon will struggle to be compliant. I believe the current G meets standards up until 2019. It is also my understanding, and this may be incorrect, that the profit margin is lower than the rest of the product range. As mention in this thread, the vehicle is produced for Mercedes by Magna Steyr and therefore, unlike the rest of their range, Mercedes aren't in direct control of the production. Add to that the low volume, construction methods, quality of materials and you can see why a cheap replacement would be advantageous to Mercedes. I've owned a short wheel base G500 and in RHD they are very rare. One of the few vehicles I genuinely wish I'd never sold. Supacat, in terms of boxes to tick, if you love vehicles and are a petrolhead, imho, owning a G-wagon should be on the bucket list (same rationale for those who have never owned a Defender). |
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30th Aug 2015 5:02pm |
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| kbf1981 Member Since: 22 Feb 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 183
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Yes. I looked at buying one when I bought my ML63 a couple years ago. I've owned all sorts of cars from several Porsches, Lambo, Ferrari, AMG's, BMW's.... this is my first landcruiser. I've gone through an average of 2 cars a year since passing my test X years ago lol 
Before here I commented every so often on Pistonheads where my car history is more thorough. I stand by my comments. I don't know about anyone else's Defender, but mine's awesome. Maybe mine was built on a Monday. |
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31st Aug 2015 1:01pm |
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| kbf1981 Member Since: 22 Feb 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 183
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I think you're mistaking percieved quality (which is something manufacturers build in) vs. actual ruggedness. In terms of percieved quality, manufacturers often make the front doors heavier because customers open them and a weighty door *feels* better made... ask yourself why the rear doors feel lighter? If the door had to be that heavy due to the strength of build, why are the rear doors so much lighter? Then ask yourself... why are the doors on a 2000 Toyota Celica so light, yet here's a car that'll do 300,000 miles quite easily? Yet... the heavy doors on a 1995 Bentley (which will give you no end of trouble), are very heavy again. Weight of the door is something manufacturers build in to play on people's percieved quality. Beats do the same with their headphones and actually add metal to them to make them feel heavier, and a better made item. In terms of the G Class, on lux on is the only one offered to consumers now - not the one built for armies - http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/27/mercede...continued/ The RR is a nice everyday car, but I could have bought one of those instead of the Defender. I just like the Defender better, and even though I've never done any serious off roading, some of the things I've done in my Defender would have ripped the bumper off a Range Rover in. The RR is a nice car, but with so much technology I wouldn't trust it if I wanted to take it on a long overland trip and even thought that's not, to be honest, what I do... I still like the idea that I could in the Defender. In terms of the true build quality of something, isn't that how it lasts? Case in point, a Suzuki Jimny feels like a packet of crisps, but it'll last being smashed around off road, engine will easily go on for 100k+, and anything that can break is easy and quick to fix. Isn't that true build quality, rather than if the doors are heavy? |
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31st Aug 2015 1:11pm |
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| lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006 
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I don't have a g and am not likely to want one. However I do have a jimny and can confirm that it is so much better built that the land rover. Water only gets in if you open the door or window, ok they do rust eventually but not after as little as 6 months like a defender, mine is nearly 5 years old and no sign of tin worm, it has comfortable seating, has air bags and the door makes a satisfactory thud when closed, basically it is generally better designed. It is also lighter and cheaper to buy and run. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.
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31st Aug 2015 4:35pm |
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