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diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

Honda factory here in swindon will be empty in a year or so time... he could move in there.

11th Jul 2020 6:23am

Grenadier

Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey

From what I understand of the news, it’s more that France has a site easy to go, than not building in Wales at all. He wants to increase production in phases, so further sites will always be required, and as mentioned he’s already bought the welsh sites and started developing them. But that is a hugely different timescale to adapting an existing site. He clearly wants to get production underway. So let’s hope that a site in Wales s used, whether in the very short term or the slightly longer term. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

11th Jul 2020 6:34am

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3263

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

B4Lamb wrote:
foggydave wrote:
Does it really matter where its built? I own a 2.2 Defender. because the 2.2 fulfills all my needs as a tow, work and leisure vehicle and more importantly it has that extra unexplainable smile on the face factor that gives great pleasure in driving it. I would want the same in any new motor I bought. Before the Grenadier the nearest match would have been the new Land Rover Defender. I think though the Grenadier blows it out of the water. I look at the Grenadier and see an old friend and somehow know I will be happy in its company. As stated before what motor is the product of a single country or continent.
Maybe we should ask ourselves the question. - Had the old Defenders production been moved out of Britain would it have been any less a Defender? For me it would not, for you maybe it would, but it is what it is and the new Defender will be the same Defender which ever country it is built in be it Wales or France.

Well normally it wouldn't matter where it's build but seeing that a certain Sir Ratcliffe has been verbally backing Britain's ability to do well as an independent nation outside of the EU you would think he would put his money where his mouth is and back Britain by bringing in employment and investing to boost the UK economy. He is no better than that other toe rag Branson although he was pro UK staying in the EU. So no sorry ... after all his promises he goes and does the dirty on the UK and in particular Wales so it's left a sour taste in my mouth for sure.

Even if the UK manages to negotiate comparable international trade deals, the customs checks would play havoc with the production line. Transport costs would also be considerably more as all the parts are coming from Europe. I'm also disappointed he hasn't backed Britain but assembling in the EU is the correct decision for the business. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

11th Jul 2020 7:16am

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

I wonder how Grenadier is going to work around the EU targets for the average 95g CO2 per km for new vehicles in 2020 across the range? Seems pretty unlikely to be met by a 3 litre engined square box.

Or is this target just so unrealistic that no one will meet it? Maybe I have just not understood what the legal ruling actually is.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/in...sessment-1 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

13th Jul 2020 8:20am

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

I’m interested in how they’ll get around the CO target too. They certainly won’t meet it with the Grenadier. Are they small enough manufacturer to be covered by some sort of exemption? Can the vehicles be classified and registered in such a way as to avoid the target, or have a higher one applied? 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

13th Jul 2020 8:54am

90 Dreamer

Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2144

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

maybe as its a BMW supplied package they get to ride on their coat tails??

13th Jul 2020 9:12am

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

That would not at all be favourable to BMW, if the numbers got added to their tally. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

13th Jul 2020 9:46am

Orchard

Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Usually walking the dog
Posts: 258

The 95g/km is for the EU as a whole, each manufacturer has its own target that could be higher or lower to that according the their fleet average mass.

EU regulation:
"Manufacturers responsible for between 1 000 and 10 000 cars registered per year (“small volume” manufacturers) can propose their own derogation target, which has to be approved by the Commission based on the criteria set in the Regulation"

As they will probably sell less than 10,000 in Europe (out of 30,000 global target), basically Grenadier will have to negotiate a target with the Commission for their EU 27 fleet. They will have to show that they have comparable efficiency to other products of a similar mass.

They won't be able to be regarded as part of another manufacturers fleet unless they declare a 'pooling' arrangement with them, and as the other OEM would likely have their fleet average CO2 degraded they'd want something in return, cash. 2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW

13th Jul 2020 10:35am

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

I read on another forum that the cost of "buying" some of another manufacturers CO2 allowance is now approximately the same price as the EU fines for not complying in the first place, such is the demand. i.e., there's no point doing it any more. Tesla have apparently made quite a bit of money selling all there excess allowance. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

13th Jul 2020 10:48am

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

OK so if they are banking of selling less than 10,000/year in the EU, that 'might' create an artificial demand for them, pushing prices up in the EU area.

Its going to get interesting

2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

13th Jul 2020 11:21am

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

Perhaps the very fact that there will only be a small market for this type of vehicle in Europe is what makes it viable to sell here. I'm sure they've got a plan one way or another. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

13th Jul 2020 11:33am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Hufflepuff wrote:
That would not at all be favourable to BMW, if the numbers got added to their tally.

If this is to be believed, BMW have their own issues:

Click image to enlarge

13th Jul 2020 3:44pm

rick

Member Since: 07 Mar 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 133

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

From an outsider's perspective, both British and French unions seem pretty militant. So at the risk of starting a war, does anyone have a 'balanced' viewpoint on which nation hosts the most difficult/obstructionist auto union? 1998 RR HSE
2007 RRS TDV6
2008 Defender 110
2015 Discovery Sport

17th Jul 2020 6:47am

lohr500

Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1316

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Was discussing the UK vs France situation with a friend last weekend. He wondered if they might have already had strong signs of interest in Grenadier from either the French or another European country's Military or Civil organisations. But only subject to it being built in France or another mainland European country.
It could however be nothing to do with this and more to do with subsidies and logistics as suggested earlier in the topic.

17th Jul 2020 6:53am

Grenadier

Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

Having lived in both countries, France by some margin (unions as a whole) despite only representing 8% of the national workforce.

Striking across all unions (Farmers, Auto, Rail, Air Traffic Control, Pilots, Police, Medical, Teachers) is an annual pasttime, and that's regardless of which side (Left or Right) the in-situ government leans. Almost the only union in the UK that regularly strikes anymore is the rail workers, and how much and when they strike (usually Christmas) is politically motivated. i.e. Lots of striking when conservatives are in power, almost none when Labour are in power. Of the remaining unions I listed above, almost none strike more than once every 5-10 years, perhaps even in a generation. ALL those unions above striked last year in France.

French politics and Unions are inextricably linked. But French government support for industry (often pushing the limits of EU regulation, if not downright flouting them) is also far more inextricably linked than the UK. State subsidies for French industry/manufacturing is everywhere, far more so than the UK. Renault, TGV, Airbus etc are all heavily subsidised by the French, to the degree they are arguably state owned. They are also seen as French 'jewels' so will never be allowed to go under. Not the samde in the UK where capitalism and market forces are allowed to work 'naturally'. But that is why French national debt is so high when compared to the UK pre-Covid. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

17th Jul 2020 6:56am

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