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Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

What capabilities exactly?

I’ve spent an awful lot of time driving old ones, and enough driving the new one (to be honest, about a minute is enough) to know it’s light years ahead in every aspect. The only disadvantage of the current car is the lack of a pickup as far as I can see (the nonsense about not being able to unbolt the roof etc is just that).

25th Jun 2021 10:05am

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4218

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

blackwolf wrote:
Philip wrote:
... There is nothing the Defender cannot do that the old one did ...

As has been pointed out many times already, there are many things that the old one can do better than the new one, they are just not things that you want to do in one.

The fact that you don't want those capabilities doesn't actually mean that those who do want them "live in an alternate reality" or have views which are in any way worth less than yours.

Again, I have to agree. Just because it is assumed most people do or don’t need (or want) something, doesn’t mean nobody does. There are plenty of wildly successful niche products.

JLR (and Gerry specifically) has gone on record and said they wanted to put the Land Rover aftermarket out of business. They believe everything that the customer needs either comes already fitted or is available through SVO, or whatever it’s called. That clearly hasn’t come to pass even for the new Defender. That sort of attitude from a brand with the history, following and thriving enthusiast scene that Land Rover has is reckless, cynical, joyless, arrogant and so lacking in respect for the customer as to be laughable. With statements like that the company in my view is digging it’s own foundations out from under itself.

Can you imagine Ford, Jeep, or any other car maker, adopting the same stance? 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

25th Jun 2021 10:27am

Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

The comments were effectively in relation to the likes of Overfinch and Kahn (in reality, launching the Supercharged RR in 2006 killed the original modification market, just leaving stick-on bits and diamond quilting).

What are the capabilities which the old Defender has, but the new one doesn’t?

25th Jun 2021 10:35am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17462

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Philip wrote:
What capabilities exactly?

I’ve spent an awful lot of time driving old ones, and enough driving the new one (to be honest, about a minute is enough) to know it’s light years ahead in every aspect. The only disadvantage of the current car is the lack of a pickup as far as I can see (the nonsense about not being able to unbolt the roof etc is just that).

There is ample evidence that there is no point pursuing the discussion with you.

25th Jun 2021 10:42am

Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

Simple question.

25th Jun 2021 10:43am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Quote:
JLR (and Gerry specifically) has gone on record and said they wanted to put the Land Rover aftermarket out of business. They believe everything that the customer needs either comes already fitted or is available through SVO, or whatever it’s called.

I don't know too much about it, but I understand Jeep Chrysler, Dodge, and Ram Trucks all own Mopar, and I think it's great that you can buy a brand new Wrangler with a 4" lift, with big wheels and tyres...and because it's Mopar the Wrangler is still covered under Jeep's warranty! That's astounding. You only have to add a sticker to your car here to void the warranty (and/or the insurance!). Imagine if JLR and others had teamed up with an after-market supplier like Wildbear and said to buyers that they can choose add-ons out of Wildbear's catalogue and still be covered! I remember my local Land Rover dealer refusing to even service my 90 because it had a V8 engine from a RR in it. Now left.

25th Jun 2021 11:30am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17462

Philip wrote:
Simple question.

Answered many times in threads in the past.

25th Jun 2021 11:31am

SteveG

Member Since: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 661

Philip wrote:
Simple question.

Yawn 🥱

25th Jun 2021 11:38am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Philip, there are a LOT of original Defender owners who just wanted an updated version of it, like Jeep did with the Wrangler. What JLR instead did was a Disco 5. There's no avoiding that that is what the new Defender actually is. It has no real Defender DNA. So many owners (of the original) WANT a roof that you can unbolt...in other words, they want (as I said) just an updated Defender. This is why the Grenadier appeals to so many (but not to me, I hasten to add - I think it's already out of date!). My wife can't tell the difference between the Wrangler JK and JL. If I'm honest, even I have to look at the grille to see the difference (lights cut in to the grille on the JL). And I know that many here and on other Land Rover forums would like to have struggled to tell the two Defenders apart. And in my opinion, I agree. The shape is not only iconic, it's really pleasing to the eye. All they had to do was update it

Now left.

25th Jun 2021 11:40am

Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

How can you update something which is forty-plus years out of date? I know nobody - nobody - who actually used a Defender as intended (ie not as some fantasy lifestyle crutch) who would ever dream of trying to take the roof off one. Why would you want the hassle? The Grenadier is also going to be a bitter disappointment if unbolting bits is the game, and if LR had ever invested in developing and replacing the old one in normal product cycles, I doubt we’d be in a different place than we are now anyway.

If “capability” is all about having a crap Meccano set, there are thousands upon thousands of old Land Rovers to unbolt bits from.

25th Jun 2021 11:55am

diduan

Member Since: 13 Oct 2016
Location: Central Balkan
Posts: 260

Guys this is Bronco space😁 Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt

25th Jun 2021 12:02pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

But I note you didn't deny it's just a Disco 5.

'They' just wanted a new Defender that you didn't crack your elbow on, that didn't need an external roll over cage, that had the handbrake in a sensible place, that didn't have rivets and spot welds...a Wrangler that had a Defender badge on it! I don't think that was too much to ask. Instead (sorry to repeat) we got a Disco 5. JLR lost the plot some years back. Now left.

25th Jun 2021 12:05pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

diduan wrote:
Guys this is Bronco space😁

Sorry, love the Bronco (but also love the Wrangler and original defender)! Now left.

25th Jun 2021 12:06pm

Philip

Member Since: 09 Mar 2018
Location: England
Posts: 510

What puddle? wrote:
But I note you didn't deny it's just a Disco 5.

'They' just wanted a new Defender that you didn't crack your elbow on, that didn't need an external roll over cage, that had the handbrake in a sensible place, that didn't have rivets and spot welds...a Wrangler that had a Defender badge on it! I don't think that was too much to ask. Instead (sorry to repeat) we got a Disco 5. JLR lost the plot some years back.

So “they” wanted a car wilfully made worse than it should or could be? The Defender (and Grenadier) need much more rounded abilities than a weekend toy like the Bronco (which in any case is a simple Ranger derivative, not some amazing all-new wonder machine).

Anyway, the Bronco.

25th Jun 2021 12:16pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Philip wrote:
Supacat wrote:

So not "structural magnesium alloy"?

When the cover over the rear seats clearly serves an obvious practical purpose lacking in the Branger, it was difficult to understand what you were trying to moan about.

So you just invented a purpose for it? Why not admit you were wrong when you stated it was structural?

You do have a fundamental inability to recognise metals ~ you mistake a steel chassis for aluminium on the Bowler and now claim an aluminium modesty panel is structural magnesium alloy.

And talk of moaning... from you ~ that's just doubles up on your lack of self awareness.

25th Jun 2021 12:30pm

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