 | Home > Off Topic > Ford Bronco - Getting Closer |
 
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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It looks like Gerry spent the money on an aluminium bar for style (?) and Ford spent the money on functionality and getting the rear seats to fold flat.  Click image to enlarge |
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24th Jun 2021 5:32am |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1319 
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So why wouldn't a vehicle made by JLR aimed at the same sector not do well globally? It would have given JLR a clear differentiation between Defender and Discovery and opened the door to the enthusiast/modifiable market. Something that they don't currently cater for. Other than body styling and a few extra off road bells & whistles (which most owners won't need) I am still struggling to understand what is really different between Defender and Discovery. At the end of the day haven't JLR cynically slapped a Defender name on something that has very little to do with the original? It would have been very easy to offer an off road biased Discovery using the existing platform for those wanting a more hard core "off road" vehicle in the Disco/new Defender sector. Then bring out something like the Wrangler or Bronco to target the market that Jeep & Ford must think exists. |
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24th Jun 2021 7:19am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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It’s structural magnesium alloy that would be there whether you could see it or not - and, if anything, that looks like a bigger height difference from floor to seat back. |
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24th Jun 2021 9:15am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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There is absolutely zero chance that the US toy market would buy a new Land Rover in similar numbers to a Wrangler or Branger (even if they somehow managed to price it competitively), but what I genuinely don’t understand is what people think the Defender misses by being a massively more competent all-round vehicle. Why would they even contemplate making a new car anything like the old Defender, when it was archaic and outmoded in every aspect? The suggestion seems to be that because the Defender is better than its competitors on the road as well as off, it has somehow failed, which is a pretty odd viewpoint. A D200 90 Hardtop is surely basic enough for the most committed frontiersman/prepper fantasist, even if it doesn’t offer any silly option names for people who spend their weekend trying to get stuck. It’s taken Toyota decades to become a major player in the US leisure market, and that’s with the ability to leverage its mega-volume cheapo global pickup platform (something else that LR was just never going to be in a position to compete with). |
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24th Jun 2021 9:41am |
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| AMBxx Member Since: 24 Jul 2016 Location: York Posts: 1035 
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Must admit, I was wandering why anyone would complement Ford on those folding seats. Looks a bit crap to me with lots of opportunities to break the seat mechanism. Would be much better if they were removable. |
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24th Jun 2021 9:44am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I know there's a structural magnesium beam across the front bulkhead, but didn't know there was one in the rear of the 90? All the photos Ive seen give the rear bar the appearance of anodised aluminium, however I've not seen one in the flesh. Seems odd to remove a structural part...
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic77883.html |
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24th Jun 2021 4:11pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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It’s just a ribbed plate covering the hinge area in a 90 - presumably to stop dirt etc getting into the gap and to form a shelf - not having a flat floor with a folded seat is just a packaging reality in something like this with proper rear seats (or a SWB anything else similar).
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24th Jun 2021 4:27pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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My 110 5 seater has rear seats that fold completely flat, I can understand why the 5+2 version doesn’t have it because of the sliding / reclining system but why they didn’t allow the 90’s seats to be the same as the 5 seat model is beyond me - not like it was going to cost any more as they already had the rear seat folding mechanism available from the 5 seat 110. Only reason I can think of is “bean counting” ruling out the cost of a couple of hinges. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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25th Jun 2021 4:13am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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So not "structural magnesium alloy"? |
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25th Jun 2021 5:18am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Yes JLR's annual sales target for the new Defender and then some right there: "If you are one of 125,000 people that is patiently waiting on your new Ford Bronco" https://www.overlandexpo.com/whats-new/new...mbly-lines |
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25th Jun 2021 5:32am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841  
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On this planet. There are thousands of Defender owners who have no interest in the ND, clients simply lost. We are already seeing that Def sales (not including those in the US), are mainly poaching from other LR vehicles and for those that aren’t, are for people wanting yet another SUV. Capable off roading with more comfort and practicality was always the preserve of the Disco, which is why so many people compare the ND with the Disco family. Journos talk about the ND’s road manners and it’s excellent off road ability, but what’s ‘new’ that it brings to the table apart from electronic gizmos? Nothing. And it arguably brings less to the table than the Classic. It can drive off road and it can drive on road and do it in comfort. Perfect for the plethora of road car biased journos and potential buyers, but it’s nothing new. The classic Defender hadn’t been the best off roader for a generation, yet Gerry and LR seem to think that by obsessing over this detail, exposing a few bolt heads in the cabin and chucking a wheel on the rear door suddenly makes it worthy of the Defender name; it doesn’t. The Defender legacy is ALL about what it is, not solely about how capable it is off road, something that apparently was lost on Gerry. It was about what it can be, to whom, in how many guises, how simply and affordably, where in the world and why, and then some off reading thrown in. These are the reasons (the legacy) why there are still so many out there, used by so many different people, for so many different things, in so many different styles, models and personal finishes. That’s what the old Defender did, but the ND fails miserably in doing/offering, but is what Lohr is suggesting could have been offered by LR in the ND alongside better comfort levels and road manners over the classic Defender and with some styling that genuinely used some DNA from the classic Def. The new Bronco and latest Wrangler clearly look like their forebears, but offer more ability and comfort than their 70s cousins, but without sacrificing the ‘extras’ those two models offered their fan base over generations. The ND looks nothing like the old Defender, and offers most (not all) genuine fans nothing of the extras that the classic offered. It’s a perfect Disco, but a failure as a Defender. Sadly, the silhouette model chart amplifies this thinking by LR. Tell me where in the chart most ‘classic’ Defender owners fall? Look at the 90. Young, affluent etc. How many 90 owners over the past 70 years fell into that category? Click image to enlarge Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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25th Jun 2021 6:11am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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When the cover over the rear seats clearly serves an obvious practical purpose lacking in the Branger, it was difficult to understand what you were trying to moan about. |
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25th Jun 2021 9:34am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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You live in an alternate reality. The Land Rover/Defender was an anachronism from before the time BL didn’t spend enough on the Series III. There is nothing the Defender cannot do that the old one did, but immeasurably better. LR cannot ever dream of competing against the pickups that the Japanese churn out in their millions - they don’t have the capacity or the global reach, it simply cannot happen. The Branger and the Wrangler are crude, cheaply-engineered and cynically-conceived toys in a closed market Toyota has taken decades to break. On the one hand, the problem is that the Defender isn’t a weekend leisure vehicle (the sort of thing bought by the young and affluent you have an issue with not being manly and rugged enough, or something); on the other, it’s that it isn’t some sort of Third World tractor that only a masochist/fantasist would spend money on. Which is it? |
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25th Jun 2021 9:46am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17465 
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As has been pointed out many times already, there are many things that the old one can do better than the new one, they are just not things that you want to do in one. The fact that you don't want those capabilities doesn't actually mean that those who do want them "live in an alternate reality" or have views which are in any way worth less than yours. |
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25th Jun 2021 9:56am |
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