 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft - updated genuine or Ashcroft? |
 
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| keith Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2211  
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As the chart shows my 12 year has the most failures. I’m on 80000 miles so that’s an average of 27000 per breakdown. Yes I can guarantee it will be an ongoing lifetime of the same failure unless a modified part is fitted. I will do The Ashcroft part as this is the only thing not done in past repairs and as mentioned before, if more than 27000 miles is achieved then one is quids in. I’m just absolutely dumbfounded by LRs total lack of acceptance of any existing problem over so many years and number of vehicles involved.
Cheers Keith |
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25th May 2019 11:03am |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1398  
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Hi Julie,
That chart was made 1 year ago, sorry I haven't updated it. The failures usually happen between 25,000 and 60,000 miles, so as they get older, more vehicles reach the miles where the failure happens. I think an update will show more failures in 2013, and a small increase for 2014. - this has given me push to do an update over the next few weeks. 
To answer your question, I don't think there was a change to the production process. Except for the lubrication paste added very late in the production run. There are too many possibilities for why there may be an alignment issues for us to prove where the problem is. I'm sure JLR will have done a study, and probably concluded it was too expensive to fix. They may have done some low cost improvements, like refurbishment of machinery or tooling, to improve tolerances. However, the problem still existed up to the end of production. Cheers. |
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27th May 2019 5:35pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 479  
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Thank you so much DSC-off.
So there are still the options : - missalignement / tolerances or - lack of lubrification In these case I still believe in the statements of the two swiss technicians for harvest machines (who helped me out just after the failure). They showed me the same kind of joint in their harvest machines linking two parts and allowing for small tolerances. They said that this type joint has to be lubricated in order to avoid corrosion. Corrosion products are harder than steel. They are the sand which ruins the joint in a small period of time. |
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27th May 2019 9:49pm |
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| Fernando Member Since: 25 Oct 2017 Location: CABA Posts: 92  
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Update mine with ashcroft very little rust, no grease and very little wear.
Defender 110 year 2008 Km 250,000 |
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28th May 2019 10:29am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298  
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can anyone think of a similar joint that isn't lubricated and doesn't wear. the grease I have no doubt will over time loose its qualities. I suspect several of the joints that people have shown to be dry and not lubricated probably were lubricated but 3 or 4 years later 'appear' not to have been lubricated? |
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28th May 2019 11:23am |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2411  
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I remember a forum member who fitted a grease nipple on the female cup long time ago. I wonder how is it going. Though it means to drill an access hole on the extension. Puma 110" SW
............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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28th May 2019 11:31am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17339 
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I think it is a combination of both factors. I inspected and lubricated my original joint at 150,000 miles when fitting a new clutch. I expected it to be well-worn so had bought a new genuine set of parts expecting to need them (this was before Dave Ashcroft's kit was available). I found it to be as dry as a bone with no trace of lubricant but so little worn it was a better fit than the new one. I greased it thoroughly and left it in place. I need to replace the clutch again (240,000 miles now) so it will be interesting to see it now. I agree that corrosion products will massively accelerate fretting, but for this to occur there must also be movement in the joint. If the alignment is correct there will be no movement. It is also worth noting that whilst this kind of spline joint may be able to cope with limited axial movement (which shouldn't happen in this application) it cannot and is not designed to cope with angular movement resulting from misalignment. |
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28th May 2019 12:26pm |
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| keith Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2211
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Ok it’s 2 weeks since I was recovered and only now ( or at least this week ) hopefully the garage doing the work will strip out the boxes. Luke at LOF has provided the clutch and parts along with great customer care. Ashcroft have supplied the modified shaft. £660 for parts so far before my repairs bill. I’ll ask for pics of the strip down and Broken shaft. On a positive note however, the LWT won 1st prize at the BVAC Thirleston Castle classic car show at the wkend. 
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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10th Jun 2019 1:21pm |
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| CharlieDonuts Member Since: 16 Jun 2019 Location: Illiers Combray Posts: 133 
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I own a 2008 2.4 TDCI 90 with 100K on the clock. I have never had any issues with the output shaft. In fact before I landed here I didn't even know that this was an issue.
Anyways, in the next three months, I plan to fit a new Ashcroft ATB transfer box. Would it be prudent then to fit the MT82 Output shaft from Ashcroft at the same time ? My main interest is reliability. Exploring makes me happy
Tow trucks though make me sad  |
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23rd Sep 2019 7:38pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4204 
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I would take view when you can see your current one. If it looks ok, I’d replace with another standard one, which are relatively cheaper. If it looks badly worn, go for an Ashcroft. Either way, unless there were absolutely no signs of wear, I wouldn’t put the old one back. Just my opinion on what I would do. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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23rd Sep 2019 8:13pm |
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| CharlieDonuts Member Since: 16 Jun 2019 Location: Illiers Combray Posts: 133
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Yes it makes senses to replace/upgrade whilst its apart.
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23rd Sep 2019 8:33pm |
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| deaallen Member Since: 15 Feb 2016 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 264 
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Well after originally starting this thread I'm getting round to getting my clutch replaced with the LOF one I bought at the Peterborough show...
I'm going to wait and see what kind of condition the shaft is in before I go ahead and decide what route to go with it. Surprisingly the quote I got for changing the clutch isn't affected by whether or not they also change the shaft at the same time, that was circa £500 though - seems quite pricey to me for a clutch change but I'm comparing that to my old 300tdi which was probably a lot easier to work on 
Any idea how much I should be paying for this kind of job? |
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23rd Sep 2019 8:55pm |
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647 
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I’ve just been quoted £650 for a clutch change in the puma , that includes labour , an LUF clutch and various other bits required to fit as it’s a 2.4
Sounded fairly reasonable to me and they are a recommended fitter for LUF https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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23rd Sep 2019 9:31pm |
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647
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Also replaced my transfer box a couple of weeks ago with a recon box and Ashcroft ATB .
I replaced the output shaft to Ashcroft’s as the old one had significant wear , I didn’t know that until I saw it ! Worth noting that it took over a week for the output shaft to be delivered , so may be worth having it ready to save downtime ! https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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23rd Sep 2019 9:34pm |
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