 | Home > Tdi > 200Tdi Race engine - Weak points and limitations |
 
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| Defendermatt Member Since: 15 Sep 2016 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 313   
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I am embarking on a similar project, like you, just because I can and I want to push the tdi to see how far we can go. One thing I would say is that you need have a sweet engine to start with. To give you an idea mine will be practically new once complete (new: rods, pistons, crank, bearings etc.) I still want it to be reliable power.
At the moment I have a collection of parts that are almost ready to build up. I don’t plan the meth route as I don’t know enough about it. But to go further I would suggest you look at modifying the FIP and injectors, a search on the Cummins forums will give plenty of information about the VE. I have looked at ARP studs and other head gaskets but found nothing, so if you come up with something then I’d love to hear about it. As for power figures I know of people getting 200hp from the 2.8tgv so I’m not sure if the 2.5 will get up to this sort of output. 150/170 may be a little more realistic. However I am hoping that 300 lb ft. will be a sensible target. The tdi is a solid robust lump and has a strong bottom end; a friend has a 200 in his off road truck and runs 1.5 bar all day long. So hope mine doesn’t throw a rod  . |
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7th Dec 2016 8:49am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8051  
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I would go through the drive train prop ujs, drive member I would replace. Plus consider adhcrofts for CVs, shafts and use atb or 4 pin diffs. Depends on intended use and final tyre size. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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7th Dec 2016 9:19am |
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| Defendermatt Member Since: 15 Sep 2016 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 313
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I agree, when listening to serious ultra4/winch challenge competitors they all say that the Defender drive train is a weak link. I have fitted Quaife ATB's and have thought about props and such. Ashcroft shafts will be on the list if standard ones are not strong enough.
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7th Dec 2016 9:35am |
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| Mdm Member Since: 11 Sep 2013 Location: Sunny Lancashire Posts: 1623
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back in the day we used to run a fully rebuilt ported n polished head tweaked 200 tdi on the challenge scene
circa 170bhp and reliable we did swap the turbo but this made it to laggy we went to v8 power and then td5 power as we could do a fun day on 1/2 tank of fuel rather than a full tank by lunchtime. drivetrain wise depends on your usage and tyre size for road use with sensible tires you should be ok but if used with bigger aggressive pattern tires i would upgrade the axles with ashcroft parts. i have tested both a gas and water injected diesel landy a few years ago and whilst they were more powerful a remapped td5 or good v8 was more usable and dare i say quicker off the line. i assume you are planning to dyno it as a standard engine before the mods and then as the mods progress? im sure pete bell would love to throw it on his rolling road either way good luck with project. |
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7th Dec 2016 5:54pm |
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| Defendermatt Member Since: 15 Sep 2016 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 313
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Ahh well at least a figure of 170hp seems like a sensible one to aim for as a start!
I won't be able to dyno it before any mods are made as it is being built up into a newly rebuilt Defender. I will dyno at the end and probably take another 200tdi powered truck for a benchmark. I'm going to stick with a VNT rather than a huge compressor to keep it usable with little turbo lag. |
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7th Dec 2016 8:42pm |
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| Boost Member Since: 17 Oct 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 203 
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Wow, awesome response!
It's great that there's such an interest in these engines, I'd assumed most people moved onto the td5, Puma etc. Is this Ian of IRB Developments fame? The process of adding the turbo/meth/nitrous is going to be turned into a mini series on YouTube when we've got all the parts if anyone's interested! A dyno run would be the icing on the cake, I've heard IRB are hard to contact though? 
It's going to be hit and miss, this is the turbo I'm using https://dencodiesel.com/products/turbocharger-gt2556s-perkins-1 I got it brand new for cheap 
Rebuilding the engine is a fantastic thing to do I think but I don't have the time or expertise at the moment Top effort though  |
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7th Dec 2016 9:43pm |
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| Defendermatt Member Since: 15 Sep 2016 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 313
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I would suggest the use of a ceramic paddle clutch as even a mildly tuned tdi can start to slip.
Matching the inlet and exhaust ports should help with air flow a little also. Some more advice I would give is that unless you are building engines for a living (which I am not) then read and read…then read some more. Nope. When was the last time you saw a puma do a quarter of a million miles getting used and abused . I know a few companies that now use the puma for their site trucks and they are repairing them no end! Bring back the tdi/td5 I hear them say!
For me the tdi is a good starter because it’s all mechanical and I understand that. You can ‘re-map’ the tdi with some spanners and mechanical adjustments, you don’t need all the electrickery equipment of modern engines. Yes I know you could get the same power from a td5 with moderate tuning and putting less money into it, but where’s the fun in that? Yes I have tried to contact Ian from IRB a few times (some with some success I may add) however I've heard it's best to go down and see him, not easy if you don't live nearby. I will be following you on YouTube when the series starts .
I am no turbo expert and talking with someone like Ian or José (from td5inside) may help you make a better decision. But looking at the spec of that turbo it will probably be running out of its efficiency zone and will have looaaads of lag. |
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8th Dec 2016 7:41am |
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| Bps Member Since: 14 Feb 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 833
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If your wanting to keep it mechanical injection and after big power have you thought of putting a merc om606 in it ?
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8th Dec 2016 8:17am |
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| Defendermatt Member Since: 15 Sep 2016 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 313
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The OM606 is a beast of an engine and the figures that they are producing is very impressive! I would love to fit a 606 but I'm too deep into the tdi build to now back out of it. If I were to do another build I would fit a 606 for sure!
I will post up a spec list of what's been done and what the plans are when the build gets more under way, at the moment its at a bit of a standstill. |
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8th Dec 2016 8:30am |
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| Boost Member Since: 17 Oct 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 203
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She's going to lag!
Pics of the turbo are in my gallery. |
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8th Dec 2016 10:23am |
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| Defendermatt Member Since: 15 Sep 2016 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 313
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Holy Moly!!
I am excited to see how this goes. |
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8th Dec 2016 10:31am |
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| Boost Member Since: 17 Oct 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 203
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Thanks for all the info guys, going to have a look at it tomorrow
 Also found out how to add photos.
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Does anyone know what size threads the oil feed and return line ends use? I've done some research but can't actually find any diagrams. Fingers crossed I've got the right hose ends. |
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8th Dec 2016 10:57pm |
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| Boost Member Since: 17 Oct 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 203
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A quick update on the turbo swap!
- Have made up braided oil feed and return lines - Turbo is bolted to manifold and *just* fits onto the engine (compressor is very close to the chassis) - Will be blanking off the factory oil return line location and making a new return to the sump Removed the sump today and found some interesting metal fragments, which was nice!
The good news is the Discovery 200tdi manifold has a brace which bolts to the block, so should support the weight of the larger turbo nicely
Can post some update pics if anyone's interested. |
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11th Dec 2016 8:00pm |
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| Defendermatt Member Since: 15 Sep 2016 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 313
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Why are you not using the factory return union on the block?
I'm definitely interested in some pics |
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11th Dec 2016 8:29pm |
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