 | Home > Technical > Nolden / Speaker EVO2 headlamp comparison discussion |
 
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| chadjizz Member Since: 25 Apr 2012 Location: sussex Posts: 559   
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ericvv - you seem to have made up your mind that you want the EVO 2's so buy them! its only £500. you have spent more time on here talking about it! they could be on your landy by now!
ps. i believe SGH has used the EVo's and the Nolden on his 130 and rates the Nolden higher. me personally for what its worth - its just another thing to get unbolted and stolen off your landy. maybe when i have some money to burn i will get some! |
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3rd Jan 2015 9:09pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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If Naka are not importers, then they surely are distributors of both those light brands. Even more important, as they have interests in marketing both, and not just one of them. I have said it before, the day that someone is able to show black on white that both brands are measuring lumen according one and the same common denominator standard, I then will accept that measured lumen numbers will have some reference in showing that one produces more visible light than another. Until writing, no such common denominator is mentioned at all by nobody. In the meantime, I find the pictures on the German forum quite interesting as these are a real life comparison with photographic equipment settings and location identical for pictures of both lights. Such pictures at least give an indication of what can be expected, they ain't just words. And chadzizz, I do have the EVOs. Very good lights, certainly in combo with my halogen SVX aux high beam lamps. Now two years further down the line there may be better already as development does not stop. Replacing the EVOs for better may come one day, but no need for rush. Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw Last edited by ericvv on 3rd Jan 2015 9:51pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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3rd Jan 2015 9:47pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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Pickles, the only thing I can say is that the pictures taken by Naka and posted on the German forum are probably the only neutral unbiased info we can rely on for now. Best, Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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3rd Jan 2015 9:50pm |
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| TJ101 Member Since: 30 May 2007 Location: Taunton Somerset Posts: 3750  
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Many difference thread now on this subject ,, but taken from
http://www.defender2.net/forum/posting.php...p;p=379614
The images nakatanenga has posted on that German forum are very similar to my finding,, Not bothered or now really interested in all the posted so called facts and figurers, just know which works for me the best,, California F1, 75th 110 "Kermit", 50th Ann V8, 90 V8 Hybrid, 55 Series 1 Main Brian James Trailer Dealer for South West UK |
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3rd Jan 2015 9:50pm |
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!| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610  
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'Light output' appears to be the main theme here. Based on my own experience let's move this on to quality.....
How many people that have Noldens have had issues with water/condensation ingress, white crystals appearing inside or the rear exterior finish falling off in chunks? Light output is immaterial when your lights would be better suited as a goldfish container....I have experienced two of the above...There are also threads on the subject matter.... Great point TJ.... 
My experience with J W Speakers to be clear NOT EVO 2 but the first generation of 8700s having bought a set when they first came out at nearly a grand a pair is far from ideal. They are now watertight but after quite a bit of trial, error, time and experimentation. I am not happy with them and have 'stuck with them' due to the superior light over standard and limited choice at that time. Experience even went so far as having an understanding MOT tester that 'only just' got sufficient beam pattern out of my offside one due to condensation to give me a pass. Would I like to try the EVO 2s to see if they are any better.....YES! Would I buy anything with the J W Speaker name on them again? At the moment.....HELL NO! I know what works for me alright! Rant off! 
Off for some medication now.....
When funding allows or when my current lights are no longer fit for purpose I too will be switching brand to something with a higher IP rating. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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3rd Jan 2015 11:23pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
K9F, email mobile centre with pics of your lights and send them back for a warranty claim. I had no issues with mobile centre replacing my original 8700 under warranty which cost like yours just short of a grand. Some pics of my issue which was resolved, condensation, water running down the inside of the lens and a white powder gathering at the bottom of each lens:
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge When I originally fitted them the condensation appeared as soon as they left the house and I fitted them which at the time I put down to coming from a warm dry environment into a cold damp one. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Now to answer your question on the Noldens, not one hint of condensation or water getting into the lamp. They have been on my Puma for 2 months now through the winter weather and they still shine bright. The speakers light pattern once the condensation filled the inside of the lens was dire. So much so they came out and where put on the radiator to dry out every month or so during the damp weather. In the summertime they were fine, no condensation unless it was wet, then they reverted back to the above pics. To quote TJ101 "Not bothered or now really interested in all the posted so called facts and figurers, just know which works for me the best" that is exactly how I feel. Noldens all the way and I posted pics of the light pattern to show how much I was impressed with them especially after living with the 8700's for two years the Noldens compared to the speakers are fit and forget IMHO. To quote another saying in relation to the speakers," Once bitten, twice shy" is the reason why the Noldens are staying on and why I sold the speakers. The member who bought the speakers from me was told all of the above and why they were replaced under warranty, I only hope the Evo's are a better build quality than the original 8700's. I also need to thank leeds for providing the group buy on the Noldens otherwise I would never have bought the Noldens to try while my 8700's where away for a warranty claim. Again JMTW. :thumbsup: Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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4th Jan 2015 12:14am |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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^^ Re the two posts above...
Seems both are referring to problems with the first generation Speakers, which today is two generations ago. To put this all in perspective while trying to keep some rational in all this... I never had the first gen Speakers, but I do have the EVOs, and none of the problems mentioned here above have affected my EVOs, which are in the truck for what, two years now I think? Unless proven wrong, I cannot recall to have read about water ingress problems with the EVOs. It would be hard to believe that a well respected German distributor who is on this forum too, would talk as positive as he does about the EVO2 on that German forum. If he would have any doubts about the construction quality of the EVO and now the EVO2 lights, surely he would have either been less positive, or even have spoken up about that fact. Now, for people doing serious wading where headlamps get submerged, etc. I am the first to admit that the higher IP waterproof number, the better. But I do not fall into that category at all. Like to keep my feet dry. 
And the plan is to preserve my SVX for the next generation as you can read in my signature.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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4th Jan 2015 6:16am |
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630 
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On a slightly different tack... I've had the 72.5mm Speaker indicators fitted to my 110 since it was nearly new... The truck is now fast approaching two years old and they've been nothing but constant bother... The first set corroded within 6 months, The second set corroded just as quickly and started to suffer the dreaded condensation, These took longer to replace as I was waiting for the 'EVO' version with the plastic plinths... This set have lasted until the first hard frost (circa -15mm) and have now started filling with condensation and water... Which left me stranded recently in the highlands with no stop tails and only one front side light....
I've fitted the Nolden headlamps and can totally agree with Lorryman100, They're totally fit and forget... I've had them on for about three months now and they've been great...No condensation and no issues what so ever... It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse... 2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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4th Jan 2015 8:23am |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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Measuring the light output of a headlamp or any light source is hugely problematic as its effected by so many variables that if they did use a common measure then all they would do is start cheating to acheivce the biggest number. If I was in the market for led headlamps (which I'm not) then I'd go with IP rating/reliability and photographs of side by side comparisons. A picture tells a thousand words etc....
As a matter of interest which drivers do these lamps use, how many and of what wattage for which beams. That would be of interest. |
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4th Jan 2015 8:40am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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Eric you accused me of doing Apple and pears comparison when it comes to the light output of Nolden and Speaker LED headlights. The figures I quote are from the manufacturers specifications. Or are you trying to infer that one of the manufacturers does not know how to measure light output?
I try to get people to look at the whole package and not just one aspect. Now ingress from water is given by the second figure in the IP rating code A figure of 7 basically means no water ingress up to a depth of one metre, whereas 9K basically means proof against water ingress from a jet wash at 80C at 80 bar from a distance of 150mm From manufactures specifications Noldens BiLed. 9K Truck lite phase 7 9K Jw Speaker 8700, 8700 Evo, 8700 Evo2, indicators 217 are all 7 I have not heard of water ingress issues on the Noldens or the Trucklites Phase 7 which are rated at 9K Now there has been plenty of evidence on this forum that the 8700 suffer from water ingress. There is evidence that the latest version of JWS 217 suffer water ingress Yes JWS has improved the light output and light distribution pattern on the Evo 2 compared to the original 8700. However they have not managed to improve the water ingress protection of the Evo2 which is 7 exactly the same as the original 8700. The Evo 2 is relatively new to Europe so no evidence of water ingress as yet. Now JWSpeaker is an American manufacturer of headlights and their headlights are suppose to fit the iconic American 4x4 the Jeep. Whilst these issues does not effect us as Defender drivers I suggest you read the American Jeep forums. I would suggest that people look at the entire specifications of any LED headlights that they are thinking of purchasing, look at people's experience with them, then make up their minds. Brendan |
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4th Jan 2015 9:06am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Brian,
Despite my lights not having been purchased through Mobilecentre (they ultimately came from them but were sourced from another outlet that were selling them on the forum). Tim at Mobile Centre has always been honourable and helpful. There is something in the pipeline in the way of a part brokered offer and I am waiting to hear confirmation from a communication I last sent some time ago. The work I have carried out on the lights which included extensive sealing and the fitting and sealing of the original light rubber boot could be argumentatively construed as negating the warranty perhaps? I am an engineer and not one to mess about when convinced I can sort it myself. I did not want replacement 8700s as the problem would most likely be exactly the same with a replacement set, based on other people's experiences at the time. In the interim I am still running with my 8700s which are dry but have due to historical moisture ingress become a little clouded by residue left on the inside of the glass and white crystal deposits. IMHO and experience the high cost most certainly did not warrant the obvious inferior quality. If I have to shell out I will, it will give me an element of satisfaction taking a hammer to mine as they have undoubtedly been my most disappointing and frustrating purchase I can recall for my Land Rover ever. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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4th Jan 2015 9:44am |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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Brendan, yes, you are making apples and pears comparison. I suggest you reread this entire thread from page 1 once again, as well as the other thread started by yourself from which this thread was a split off. You will read that I fully agree that higher IP rating is better by definition. You will read that you have been using these measured lumen numbers quoted by the two brands to prove that the higher numbers by definition mean that the Nolden throw out more light. Well, as you can read in several posts of mine in these threads, that I have questioned about what parameters both brands use for their measured lumen, this because the quoted lumen numbers by both brands are so greatly different, that any reasonable person who knows for instance both the Nolden and the EVO, (as I do as I have a neighbour in the parking with the Nolden) sees very well that light output of both Nolden and EVO is very comparable. Suggest you also look up my own old thread of Nolden versus EVO comparison. Light output is basically at par, IP of course is favoring Nolden. I have asked on here about the measuring standards used by both suppliers for their quoted lumen numbers, in order to find out of there is any common denominator which would allow some value to be given to comparing the numbers they quote, but there is only silence, so plenty of reason to believe that both brands use different paramaters for measuring their lumen. Until then, I give all the credibility to the IP numbers, but would be even better if anybody on here when trashing Speaker would confirm that their bad experience is with generation 1, while as far as my own experience says that generation 2/the EVO entirely or largely wiped out these concerns. Until further proof, as said, I give zero credibility to quoted lumen numbers comparison by you, but give quite a bit of value points to the pictures in Nakatanenga's post on the German forum. As a last comment in all this, I think I give high marks to other brands suppliers/importers for their reserved attitude in all this, and for not openly making repeated comments which can be seen as directly targeting someone else's products in a very negative way.
In order to substantiate how questionable the lumen numbers quoted from both manufacturers really are, I have taken the liberty to reproduce the pictures from Nakatanenga here. They say more than a thousand numbers I think. Low beam comparison Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge High beam comparison Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw Last edited by ericvv on 6th Jan 2015 12:00am. Edited 2 times in total |
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4th Jan 2015 10:14am |
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| ken Member Since: 18 Aug 2009 Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !! Posts: 4328
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I however have had no issues with the 8700 over the past five years on two Puma's
Yes I accept I dry store the Defenders when not in use but thats more for security than vanity I',ve fitted Trucklites to the 50th which I hate but I won't fit 8700's because they look to far departed from an OEM appearance in an early image however the Noldens might just do it this choice is based on appearance not performance so truly function over form. I will be fitting 8700's (my personal choice) on the new project though |
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4th Jan 2015 10:14am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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Higher numbers by definition do mean that they throw out more light. So long as both numbers refer to the same thing (i.e. they're both measured) that is a fair comparison. And actually, the Speakers' wording says "Effective" which could be taken as measured output or (theoretical raw output)*(theoretical optical efficiency)=theoretical actual light output. Giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming the Speakers are measured, they're still lower. Edit: the only thing that the numbers do not prove is the beam pattern. Throw those extra lumens up in the sky and they're not going to help you see things in front. |
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4th Jan 2015 1:22pm |
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