 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.2 XS, Can you switch off the Traction Control? |
 
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| WelshGas Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Vale of Glamorgan Posts: 935   
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I have been on an Off-Road driving course in the Neath Valley, in my Puma, and the instructor got me driving slowly up a steep gravel slope with alternate patches of fine and medium gravel such that, without centre diff lock on TC was activated on both axles and eventually all wheels were braked and engine stalled. Oh, I was in low 1st. We just stopped. No foot brake. Just put on Hand brake. Then clutch in, select low reverse, clutch out, handbrake off and start engine. NO feet on pedals and slowly reverse back. Of course ALL safety procedures were undertaken, looking around and sounding horn etc: before moving back..
2nd try was in low 2nd and faster speed with CD lock on. No problem. TC did activate on 1 wheel but we just powered through. My point was that when the engine stalled the vehicle just stopped without application of brakes because TC had locked all wheels. The handbrake was applied so that clutch could be operated to change gear.  LANDYWATCH
Neighbourhood Watch for Land Rover Owners http://www.landywatch.co.uk/smf2/index.php |
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25th Feb 2014 6:42pm |
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| WelshGas Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Vale of Glamorgan Posts: 935
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Your probably correct Blackwolf, the vehicle was probably held by the stalled engine, but as the instructor explained, 1 wheel on each axle started spinning, TC then braked that wheel which transferred power to the non-spinning wheel which because of the track surface started to spin/lose traction thus operating TC on that side. All 4 wheels now braked and hence engine stall, so at that point with the brake system pressurised one could argue either way that the engine or wheel brakes are holding the vehicle, at that point.
I will take note of your comments regarding the clutch, I should have said " clutch pedal in/out ". LANDYWATCH
Neighbourhood Watch for Land Rover Owners http://www.landywatch.co.uk/smf2/index.php |
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25th Feb 2014 8:17pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443  
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The traction control will have nothing to do with holding the stalled vehicle on a hill, when you do it by the book and stall you are being held by the stopped engine and the fact it is in gear, the brakes have nothing to do with it. I too have done the same as described above on LRE days with both a 2.4 and a 2.2, the latter was a year ago as my son pointed out tonight.
One thing that must be remembered is that my encounter with problems is on a 2002 Td5, as has been mentioned earlier things have improved and a new system is in use on newer Defenders. Defenders of my era were new to tc and many people have had bad experiences of the older system and it is not rated highly by some but as long as you are aware of its limitations it is helpfull. Technology has moved on and tc is much improved on later models. |
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25th Feb 2014 9:11pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8208  
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TC does not lock out user input but for those unused to the feel of a different brake pedal it could appear that way on reflection.
the use of the handbrake on a failed hill climb i find interesting. so with WG experience hand brake on is only holding one wheel via the prop with no CDL. LRE teaching is leave the handbrake out the procedure. Cheers James 110 2010 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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25th Feb 2014 9:59pm |
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| WelshGas Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Vale of Glamorgan Posts: 935
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Sorry, but I disagree regarding handbrake. If the handbrake cannot hold the vehicle, how does a stalled engine? Also, how do you change from forward to reverse gear without the vehicle rolling back if not held by the handbrake in some fashion? Because if you do not use handbrake or foot brake once you disconnect the engine from the drive train then what is to stop the vehicle rolling back, and you have to disconnect to engage reverse.
 LANDYWATCH
Neighbourhood Watch for Land Rover Owners http://www.landywatch.co.uk/smf2/index.php |
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25th Feb 2014 10:24pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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I would have thought that without centre diff lock on tc could only have been active on either axle separately rather than simultaneously? |
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25th Feb 2014 10:26pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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The tc works by reversing the abs, i.e. on abs if a wheel locks under braking then it will release the brake on that wheel whereas on tc if a wheel is spinning excessively it will apply the brake to that wheel irrespective of CDL or not. Just think of Discovery II's, many didn't have CDL
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25th Feb 2014 10:32pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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isn't that just an issue for them since the intro of the electronic version on other models means it is useless offroad getting covered in mud and jamming on/not auto releasing 
Easily ignored with auto gearbox models when you have a separate park brake. |
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25th Feb 2014 10:32pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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doesn't the tc pulse brake on spinning wheel to send drive to other wheel . if it locked wheel that was spinning to send drive to other wheel that would mean the wheel trying to drive has to drag a locked wheel ?
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25th Feb 2014 10:40pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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it doesn't just release brake it pulses the brake other wise you would be pulled to the side that has brakes |
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25th Feb 2014 10:43pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8208
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correct, its cross axle on defender but works on all 4, neither Bosch or Siemens takes account of the CDL position. you could have two fronts doing 30mph with TC acting on one of them with the rears stationary (no CDL ) Cheers James 110 2010 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop Last edited by jst on 25th Feb 2014 10:55pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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25th Feb 2014 10:46pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8208
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Kenny, you use the footbrake as that holds all 4 wheels irrespective of CDL. i didnt say you don't use the footbrake. you only hold the vehicle on a stalled engine for the second (ish) after you release the footbrake prior to turning the key with the clutch already up in reverse. Cheers James 110 2010 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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25th Feb 2014 10:49pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8208
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no, its always been that way in my experience. we dont have an issue with EPB jamming up on vehicles that use them (the EPB) regularly with the excpetion of vehicles that wade alot. Cheers James 110 2010 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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25th Feb 2014 10:50pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8208
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TC can stall the vehicle as your experience above shows, but once wheels on the same axle are both braked to 0mph simultaneously TC will take the brakes off so you are not left with all 2 (or 4 for that matter) wheels braked on - in a stall for example. But i agree that the TC can brake all 4 wheels sufficiently enough to create the stall. which ties in with the comment above about learning to live with TC and adapt driving style. i do agree there are times when TC is better off being switch off too! Cheers James 110 2010 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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25th Feb 2014 10:55pm |
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