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excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue

TD5 110 Starting issues

This morning the TD5 110 started OK and went to work.
Came home OK.

I then decided to secure the batteries as there is no bracket to hold the batteries in place. I moved the battery back about 1-2" to get a ratchet strap over the batteries to tie them down.

I then had to go out and when starting the car, i noticed it cranked for longer but started OK.
Went shopping and in the supermarket car park the 110 didn't want to start. On turning the key all I got was a click. Checked the wires and nice and secure.
After a bit more playing I got the starter going and it cranked but took a while to get started.

So I got underneath and checked the starter wires, all good.
Then I remembered a little trick someone told me.
I used my jump leads to plug into the Anderson connector on the bumper which is attached to the winch wiring, which is attached to the main vehicle battery.
I put the positive croc clip onto the main starter wire and tried again, this time the starter cranked over and the car started !

I have since replaced the started solenoid and all was good....

Car played up again tonight. Started fine this morning. and then later on tonight when I went out. came back to the car and click click click.

After much messing around I used a jump lead from the battery + to solenoid wire and with a few sparks and a mate holding the key in the crank position on the key the starter rumbled into life and started.

Before trying this, I did get the car started, but it wouldn't restart.

When I got home I tried restarting the car and it was dead. click click

Being underneath the car while a mate was turning the key, the click click did not sound like it was coming from the solenoid.

Thoughts please people? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

23rd Feb 2012 10:49pm

Fifth Horseman

Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 323

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

Several things come to mind:-
The battery may have just (coincidentally) died or developed a high resistance internal joint at one of the terminal posts due to stress if the cable clamps were not slackened whilst the battery was being moved. Check voltage across it when starting, ideally should be more than 10 volts.
Check the continuity of the earth lead for the main battery, it may have fractured when moving the battery.
Check the battery is charging OK with the engine running, voltage across the battery should be 13.6 volts or more.

24th Feb 2012 6:56am

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

When I last checked the battery it was pumping out 14.x volts while the engine was running.

I do have a spare battery that was originally in the car which is show 12.5v on the bench.

I could rule out the earth by connecting another earth direct to the starter housing

My other thought is maybe I have bad relay or maybe a bad lead that activates the solenoid? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

24th Feb 2012 8:15am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17432

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

excossack wrote:
When I last checked the battery it was pumping out 14.x volts while the engine was running.

If the engine was running you would have been measuring the alternator output rather than the battery - you could quite possibly have a battery fault and still get this reading.

Since from what you say you generally seem to be able to start the car if you bypass the normal connections between the battery and starter, and since your problems seemed to start when you moved the battery, I suggest that the starting point for your investigation should be the battery connection and lead on the feed to the starter motor.

How is your winch/Anderson connector wired to the battery?

24th Feb 2012 9:28am

derekt

Member Since: 28 Dec 2011
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 7

Classic symptons of starter solenoid contacts. These can be repaired see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANDROVER-DISCOV...3ad534e4c.

Quite a simple job, only the top bolt on the starter can be a b**gger to access! Adventure before Dementia

24th Feb 2012 10:22am

derekt

Member Since: 28 Dec 2011
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 7

Oops, just re-read your first post! Starter solenoid already replaced.. Next place to check is the relay under the driver seat next to the ECU. Adventure before Dementia

24th Feb 2012 10:37am

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

BlackWolf:
Winch is wired to the main vehicle battery with a kill switch on the positve feed mounted on the battery box.

Anderson connector is wired into the positive feed and negative feed at the winch end

Will measure the battey tomorrow and see what the standing voltage is.

DerekT
Is that the yellow relay in the seat box? Are there two relays for the starter, 1 under the seat and 1 behind the removable panel by the gearstick,? Can I replace these with standard 4 pin relays?

And yup the 15mm bolt was a PITA to get to for the starter. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

24th Feb 2012 12:12pm

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

Forgot to test the battery voltage.

The car started first turn of the key today. Took it for a spin and all was good, even restarted at least twice after being left to stand.
In a way I didn't want the car to start as it makes life a bit more difficult to trace the fault. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

25th Feb 2012 9:38pm

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

Checked the battery voltage and that was 12.6/12.6v after standing.
I have cleaned up, and checked & tightened the earth and positive wires and made the solenoid connector a better fit by crimping it and also cleaned the contacts on the starter relay's (the one by the gearstick fuse box and under the seat)
Fingers crossed. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

27th Feb 2012 7:05pm

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

Car played up again today.
Started OK, after sitting all night. Went out, did about 5 miles of running around.
Parked up. came back to the car about 30mins later, long crank - but no start.
Checked voltage at the solenoid wire, 11.9v, checked voltage at the anderson plug 12.5v.
Gave up and went fishing on the boat. Came back about 2.5hrs later, first turn of the key and brum! like nothing was wrong.

This is getting annoying now.
Off the top of my head, the only sensor on the engine that will stop the car from starting is the Crank Sensor (CKP?).

Any other thoughts people? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

28th Feb 2012 6:24pm

wslr

Member Since: 18 Jul 2010
Location: Wellington, Somerset
Posts: 581

I know aftermarket starters can cause interference of the crank signal wire, even though the wire is screened. Perhaps this is the issue you have?

Anyone with a Picoscope near you? You could check the crank sensor waveform is being seen at the engine ECU when cranking.

28th Feb 2012 6:47pm

Laurie

Member Since: 22 Feb 2008
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 2897

2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Bonatti Grey

Check the fuel pump relay under the driver's seat.
The voltage drop caused by cranking sometimes stops it closing properly, it just chatters.
A finger on top will sense whether it's chattering or not. Check it's socket contact also.

28th Feb 2012 6:50pm

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

The best I could do is someone with Testbook & Nanocom?

Which is the relay for the fuel pump? Is it under the drivers seat or with the other relays by the gearstick? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

28th Feb 2012 8:18pm

Laurie

Member Since: 22 Feb 2008
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 2897

excossack wrote:
The best I could do is someone with Testbook & Nanocom?

Which is the relay for the fuel pump? Is it under the drivers seat or with the other relays by the gearstick?

It's the second from the rear yellow relay. You may have between two and four according to your model.
Try changing it with another.

28th Feb 2012 8:57pm

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5850

Cheers. I will have a look. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

28th Feb 2012 9:16pm

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