 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Drive flange bolts |
 
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829   
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Phew, I was starting to feel very ashamed.
 Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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11th Apr 2022 8:38am |
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| MercianRover Member Since: 07 Apr 2022 Location: Culworth Posts: 141  
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“The typical helical spring washer … serves as a spring while the bolt is being tightened. However, the washer is normally flat by the time the bolt is fully torqued. At this time it is equivalent to a solid flat washer, and its locking ability is nonexistent.In summary, a lockwasher of this type is useless for locking.” - NASA Reference Publication 1228 (1990) “Fastener Design Manual” Clean the tapped holes with a slotted bolt or tap to remove debris then use a solvent to remove grease deposits from the hub holes and the bolts. Next put a blob of loctite 231 on each bolt, refit and tighten. When all are nipped tight torque per workshop manual. Used to notice loosening of the drive flange bolts on our race 100" Tomcat - the rear axle when it had the Detroit locker was the worst culprit for this. Threadlock, torque and witness paint lines on each bolt saved a lot of hassle in the service park. |
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10th Apr 2023 4:53pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2027
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Ohhh MercianRover.... you have opened up this debate again
All I can say is I have the cap head bolts plus spring washers and nothing has rattled loose to date, I think others like blackwolf have had the same experience as I over a longer period and many more miles. The chief issue most experience is shearing the bolt(s) when attempting removal from the blind hole. This is attributed to using thread locker and / or detritus in the blind hole. Hence using spring washers instead. If you clean the threads , clean the bore and use low strength thread locker you may avoid the bolt shearing issue, but so far using the spring washer has worked ok for me. An alternative could be to use a Nord-Lock washer, which would be my choice if I found the spring washers were not performing well, as drilling out a sheared bolt is a real PITA |
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10th Apr 2023 5:48pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432 
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Poo-pooing spring washers is all well and good, but I have to observe that in 45 years of Land-Rover ownership I have never had a properly tightened drive flange bolt fitted with a conventional spring washer come loose, and nor, as far as I know, did Land-Rover in the fifty or so years that this was the firm's design approach.
On the other hand, I have had two (at least) snap on my Defender when they have been fitted with threadlock adhesive, usually when attempts are being made to remove them. The hassles this can cause are considerable. I will continue to use spring washers for this application, others can make their own choice.  |
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10th Apr 2023 5:54pm |
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| MercianRover Member Since: 07 Apr 2022 Location: Culworth Posts: 141
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If it's the threadlocked bolts failing on removal then there's a problem with the bolts not the threadlock. Had the bolts bottomed out and jammed in the hole?
What grade and make were the failed bolts - inferior copies perhaps? |
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14th Apr 2023 12:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432
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I think that the failures are generally caused by the holes becoming plugged with surplus threadlock adhesive and/or gasket compound, the bolts then hydraulic lock before being fully inserted due to the gunk in the blind hole, and the tool with the tool then stresses them to yield trying to get them in. Then the threadlock cures and they shear when an attempt is made to unscrew them.
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14th Apr 2023 12:41pm |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1079 
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You would think that if the spring washers were truly that useless everyone would have stopped using them, in the end it is an additional cost which either works and if it does not can be eliminated.
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14th Apr 2023 1:18pm |
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| hank Member Since: 12 Sep 2016 Location: South Wales Posts: 2301 
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Mine has been on stainless cap heads for years... No problems yet > 110 XS Double Cab
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14th Apr 2023 1:39pm |
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| jimbo55 Member Since: 15 Jul 2020 Location: Midlands Posts: 399
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I think the biggest problem with threadlock is that people don’t know what product to actually use (there are hundreds of different grades that do different jobs) and they smear it all over the full length of the bolt and not just a blob which is where people snap the drive flange bolts.
As an engineer, if you want a washer to prevent the bolt loosening fit a nordlock washer, if you don’t then fit a plain/flat washer. Springs washers are things of the past and are pretty much useless as per Mercian rovers comment and as soon as the bolt becomes slightly loose the spring will loosen the bolt further. A properly torqued bolt should not come loose, albeit that relies on the stated torques being correct, I personally went for cap head bolts and nordlock washers without threadlock. |
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14th Apr 2023 2:25pm |
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| hank Member Since: 12 Sep 2016 Location: South Wales Posts: 2301
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I saw this recently on the washer subject which I found interesting
> 110 XS Double Cab |
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14th Apr 2023 2:46pm |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 833 
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https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-RUC105200BPKBOLT 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.
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14th Apr 2023 4:43pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432
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I wonder what, on Planet Britpart, makes those "heavy duty'.
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14th Apr 2023 5:57pm |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2242 
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I always use spring washers and no threadlock, torqued to 65nm . None have ever come undone or have sheared.
What I have found makes them come undone is stretching them by overtightening, then they just rattle out of their own accord. Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. 50 Shades of Pennine Grey |
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14th Apr 2023 8:17pm |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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I had a set as i was sent them by mistake, they turned brown in a matter of weeks, which was even more impressive as it was sat on the driveway the whole time. |
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14th Apr 2023 9:53pm |
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