 | Home > Off Topic > Rivian Electric Pickup Truck |
 
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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605   
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I can see there having to be a change in regs if the government want to get rid of diesel vehicles altogether. Electric pickups are coming and right now the laws of physics dictate they’re going to be heavy so rethinking the rules seems the only way forward. https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews
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15th Nov 2021 6:44pm |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7904 
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Certainly impressive! James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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15th Nov 2021 7:48pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17354 
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There already has been a change in the regs! That's what The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 was all about. |
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16th Nov 2021 6:47pm |
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| buffalo4 Member Since: 18 Apr 2020 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 63
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I think we're all going to start liking ev's in the not too distant future,where it leaves private ownership of diesel vehicles is beyond me
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16th Nov 2021 7:02pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2142 
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And if EV's are all about saving the planet why do we need then to weigh 2tons - never mind over 4........??
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16th Nov 2021 9:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17354
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That's because of the 42 tonnes of the earth's irreplaceable rare minerals which must be dug up and processed into a 1.5 tonne battery pack for each vehicle, which will then last for about 1/3rd the life of a diesel engine before it needs replacing. But remember, despite this it is good for the environment.....
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16th Nov 2021 11:12pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3259 
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Comparatively speaking EV batteries are embryonic in their development yet most include an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty and last about 250,000 miles, after which they can be recycled or repurposed. My piece of
 Ford engined 110 went pop at around 70,000 miles despite oil changes every 6k and only being fed premium diesel. Not to mention all the EGR, VCV, MAP, MAF and injector woes etc. One of the reasons EV’s and Defender EV conversions look very attractive to my eyes. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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17th Nov 2021 7:34am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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This should be the world standard:
"In California, USA – EV battery warranties must be a minimum of 10 years and 240,000km."  Click image to enlarge Table 1: Current Australian BEV battery warranties. Notes to table: 1. In California, USA – EV battery warranties must be a minimum of 10 years and 240,000km. 2. For defects in material and construction of the battery: 10 years/unlimited km. 3. Depending on Tesla model. https://thedriven.io/2021/07/23/how-much-a...australia/ But as a start: "The EU and countries including the UK, China, and the USA are supporting a proposal ensuring minimum durability of EV batteries. The agreement was endorsed by the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations hosted by the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE). Canada, Japan, and the Republic of Korea also back the proposal. The new provisions would require manufacturers to prove that their EV batteries will lose less than 20% of their initial capacity over five years or 100,000kms, and less than 30% over eight years or 160,000kms. Countries will formally vote for a binding rule on battery durability in March 2022. Those in favour of the new rule would have to embed it into their national legislations, which could come into force as early as 2023." https://autovista24.autovistagroup.com/new...y-promise/ |
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17th Nov 2021 12:44pm |
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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605
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How many litres of diesel does that diesel engine get through in its lifetime? And how many litres of crude does it take to make that diesel? Because pumping that out of the ground is squeaky clean. 
Think I'd also rather spend a night in the garage with an EV with its power on than a diesel vehicle with its engine running because aside from global carbon emissions, local air pollution is f****** people's health. https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews |
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17th Nov 2021 5:01pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17354
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Yes, I was of course being flippant.
I have no idea in overall terms how the full-life impact on the environment of something like a classic Defender will compare with something like a Rivian, and I am not sure that anyone really does. I am fairly convinced that Joe Public is not being, and will never be, told the full facts even if they are known, since everyone has an agenda to promote. I am also sure that in a few years we will be condemning the minig of lithium or whatever in exactly the same way as we now condemn the extract of oil (which is probably regenerating under the earth's surface faster than the lithium). Ultimately I don't think it matters, because the human race has demonstrated through its entire existence that it is incapable of the mutual co-operation and restraint that will be needed to solve a global problem, and I have actually come to the conclusion that the human race will annihilate itself eventually, whatever we drive. Whether it is the result of overpopulation, a pandemic, an accident involving something dangerous, a mass extinction event we can do nothing about, or more likely our own stupidity, I couldn't say, but I am pretty sure it is going to happen and sooner than we want to think. On which cheerful note..... |
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17th Nov 2021 5:35pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17354
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Depends on the lifetime, but I can tell you that my Defender so far has used 9637.253 litres (or 2119.979 gallons if you prefer). This is approximately 8 tonnes of fuel, which is about what a Boeing 737 would use in 50 minutes of flight.
According to information online, a single barrel (159 litres) crude oil produces: * 73 litres Petrol * 36 litres Diesel * 20 litres Jet fuel & heavy fuel oil * 6 litres Propene * 34 litres of other useful stuff (Butane, Asphalt & Sulphur) Mysteriously this amounts to a total of 169 litres of useful stuff from the 159 litres of oil, so either oil is a more magical resource than any of us realise or the Internet is a less valuable resource than we realised. If these dodgy figures are correct, it take slightly less than a litre of crude to produce a litre of diesel, but I imagine that there is a significant energy input (but that will be from sustainable sources so doesn't count).
I can't argue with this, but spare a thought for the people who live near the lithium mines, the nickel mines, the cadmium mines, and even the wind farms that enable your EV to function. Life is not great for them. |
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17th Nov 2021 6:02pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Talking about the life of a diesel engine, I wonder if there is an EV version of the wrong type of diesel: "Stellantis recalls nearly 250,000 Ram heavy-duty diesel trucks over fuel pump failures Here’s how the fuel pump defect works: The CP4 pump uses fuel for lubricating the interior cam, pumping cylinders and rollers, so if fuel used is not sufficiently lubricated – which most U.S. diesel is not – the cam and rollers wear against each other generating tiny metal shavings. The metal shavings disperse throughout the fuel injection system, causing catastrophic risk: "failure can occur as early as mile one, as the fuel injection disintegration process begins at the very first fill of the tank and start of the engine, with pump components beginning to deteriorate and dispersing metal shavings throughout the internal engine components and fuel supply system." https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/hagens-b...00994.html For those with some time/interest, then the Class Action Complaint makes interesting reading: https://www.defender2.net/gallery/albums/u...plaint.pdf Last edited by Supacat on 18th Nov 2021 8:41am. Edited 1 time in total |
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18th Nov 2021 6:04am |
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| carrotbay Member Since: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Northants, UK Posts: 699
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Nice product .. but a shame the company is so backward in some respects.
[url] https://medium.com/@lauraschwab1/life-outs...600b999ae7 [/url] |
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18th Nov 2021 7:17am |
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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605
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The good thing is that as recycling improves, we won't need to mine so much: https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transi...-1-1098748 Apple now uses recycled rare earth minerals in its phones. It can be done and will get there. But again, your deflection to mining assumes extraction of oil, never mind the refining and burning, is without ecological implications. Remember deepwater horizon? Remember the Gulf of Mexico on fire earlier this year? While it’s impossible to burn oil ethically and sustainably, it is possible to produce electric vehicles in ways that minimise impact. But doing this will take time – which is why companies and governments need to make it a priority. Nickel's biggest use is in making alloys, not batteries. Cadmium is also used as a protective coating an old school nicad batteries. While I wouldn't want to live next to any of those mines (I do wonder what the locals would rather - being next to - one of those or an oil/fracking field), I'd certainly prefer living under a wind turbine/solar farm/hydroelectric than next to a coal fired power station. I'm honestly not that dead set on EVs. If hydrogen could be manufactured sustainably then I'd go for that. I just don't understand people who get a hard on over petrol and diesel engines and will argue to the death against alternatively fuelled vehicles. Maybe that's just me being a milennial. https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews |
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18th Nov 2021 9:23am |
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