 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft failure, Forum Survey |
 
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149   
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1, vehicle year of manufacture
Early 2011 (delivered to me late May 2011) 2, engine type 2.4 or 2.2 2.4 3, is the Defender still running with the original output shaft? (Y/N) N 4, vehicle milage at first shaft failure, or current milage on the original shaft if still running. Approx 86000 If the shaft has previously failed, please answer 5 & 6. 5, Has an Ashcroft modified part has been fitted? (Y/N) Y 6, vehicle milage at the second failure, or milage if still running. Now approx 102000 Mine was making a weird clattering noise on overrun for a couple of hundred miles before failure. It actually failed whilst very slowly reversing in works car park. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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14th Nov 2021 6:52am |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2138 
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Pretty unfair when the LOF one has only very recently appeared........
How many shafts have been subject to longer miles and more arduous use A single failure (in engineering terms) does not point to any kind of issue generally and could be related to fitting, use, etc without knowing the exact details Think it was @blackwolf who previously suggested it may be down to a (poor) alignment issue and therefore maybe its at an extreme on this vehicle?? |
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14th Nov 2021 11:50am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3409  
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Keep in mind that point 6 states: 6, vehicle milage at the second failure, or milage if still running. I hope 22900013A is still running after 16kmiles. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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14th Nov 2021 11:59am |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
Unlikely as the original lasted 86000 miles..... the afflicted ones tent to go around the 12-20 thousand mile mark ............ your right however we don't know who fitted the Ashcroft shaft but what we do know is that the Ashcroft has had several iterations and some have failed..as far as im aware nobody has reported a lof one piece failure or gearbox problems post modification.........I know its early days for the lof but i know which one i would choose at this point in time.
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14th Nov 2021 12:01pm |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
i thought the first failure was at 86000 miles and second failure at 102000..... not very clear to me !  my bad perhaps those filling in the survey might add a few qualifiers to help old farts like me!Last edited by nitram17 on 14th Nov 2021 12:14pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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14th Nov 2021 12:07pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2138
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So it hasn't actually failed at all........
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14th Nov 2021 12:12pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3409
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What I can say is that my 90 12MY had a history of eating adaptor shafts... on average 20kmiles on the genuine shafts. Previous owner had 2 Ashcrofts shafts installed, but I think the 2nd one was more because of an oil leak than a failure (at least as I could make up). Also from what I could make up is that the 2nd Ashcroft made it to 40kmiles before I dropped the transfer case once more, because of a bad oil leak - from a previous bad installation. What I found when I dropped the TC is that the wear shifted to the gearbox mainshaft.. something which is very uncommon. I had contacted Ashcroft on this, and their conclusion is that the bolt that fixes the female coupling to the mainshaft was not torqued properly. When I undid that bolt, I just used a breaker bar. I did not pay attention to how tight it was unfortunately.. it was more than finger tight though. I replaced the female (cup) splines at that time. Given my incident, I would be weary to fit any shaft that can compromise the gearbox mainshaft, by having the female coupling torqued to a lesser degree than stated on the MT82 manuals. That is the reason to why in an earlier comment I stated that if wear has to happen, I prefer it to happen on a part that is easy and cheap to replace. Replacing gearbox mainshaft is neither easy nor cheap.
I have no affiliation with any of the companies that supply adaptor shaft alternatives to the genuine one. I just state my 90 history. Unfortunately for those here that are hoping that I give further feedback, I am not putting big mileage on this Defender, so might take a few years until I can update on life time. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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14th Nov 2021 12:33pm |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
Dinnu.....Please help an old fella with his comprehension !im taking from your post that you would not fit the LOF one piece shaft as it may lead to more expensive gearbox problems?
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14th Nov 2021 12:55pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3409
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Hi Nitram17 This is purely my opinion:
1. Ashcroft design allows some oil to leak into the coupling.. but is there enough oil flow to remove the contaminants? In my humble opinion, no. 2. LOF design lacks 'flexibility'. I am sure that the LT230 can take the strain in case there is misalignment. But would be cautions of what can happen to the MT82 mainshaft. I think both shafts would give longer life compared to the genuine shaft, especially when the alignment between the GB and the TC is good enough (although no one knows what is good enough). I would not fit a rigid shaft on my 90 simply because my 90 has a history of going through the genuine intermediate shafts. The hypothesis is that the genuine adaptor shafts wear because of misalignment between GB and TC. So possibly I have higher misalignment compared to 'normal'. So in my case, if I fit a rigid shaft, where will the wear shift to if the hypothesis is correct? A long M12 bolt, with a relatively low clamping force on a relatively long shaft could potentially allow movement between the splines. Movement = wear. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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14th Nov 2021 2:04pm |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
I see the logic and if you can (DIY)change the shaft in a weekend for only the cost of new shaft well then i guess that would be the the obvious choice.
It will be interesting as the miles mount up on the lof shaft if any horror stories appear like with the ashcroft leak problem ..You do have me thinking though that the LOF might not be as good as it sounds. I guess i will wait for more data and might look at the grease nipple and inspection hole . I wonder how big a hole the casing would take without weakening it? Im just thinking out loud here but taking the ashcroft idea and expanding it by finding a way to make the cavity of the transfer box smaller (sleeve)and filing it with oil/grease and having a filler and breather pipe. |
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14th Nov 2021 4:07pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 913 
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I'm sure there is higher mileages out there, So for the record the LOF one piece has been in my truck for over a year now (fitted 5 OCT 20) and Circa 12K miles and all has been well.
I brought it the same day it was released to the public and fitment was ~ 2 weeks later. I guess this puts me in the early adopter camp so time will tell. 
It will be interesting to see more data on those trucks prone to eating shafts and if one of the 'cures' works or at least helps. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest |
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14th Nov 2021 6:18pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2138
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From what I have seen / read then the Ashcroft is already pretty well proven.......
The newer LOF may also prove to be a solution, be intriguing how many are fitted out there?? |
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14th Nov 2021 7:43pm |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
I'm not sure if Ashcroft have solved the leaking problem ,,but that may be down to fitment standards.
The lof system just needs a few more miles on the clock to see if it causes any gearbox or shaft problems but the huge difference in the torque requirements of the retaining nut on original and the lof system is puzzling ..I can see why a long bolt as in he lof system would not take the torque of the original but they re doing the same job are they not? |
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14th Nov 2021 9:21pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17338 
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It's not the length but the diameter which makes the difference. The original bolt is.something like M20, the replacement long bolt is I think M12.
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14th Nov 2021 9:47pm |
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