 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > MY2011/2012 Recall Action P047/048 Front Axle Case |
 
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| CarMan Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 1858  
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8th May 2020 3:40pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8009  
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My 10 plate is mig welded, no brackets and no sings of failure looming. What's the % of those that actually failed? Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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9th Oct 2021 7:46am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410  
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Are you running with any spacers or lower/negative rim offets? Sticking the wheel further out increases leverage on the joint.
I am now informed that only mig welded axles are affected. I wish I know what is the true affected %, that is how many have failed. And a question: has anyone welded a truss from the flange to the axle tube (kind of a cone shaped plate)? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Oct 2021 1:40pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353 
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Can I ask the source of the info that only MIG welded axles are at risk? How reliable is it?
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9th Oct 2021 5:53pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410
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Hi Blackwolf, I read this whole thread, and quite a bit more online.
JLR recalled 2011 and 2012 Defenders, but not 90 models. I am not sure how the engineers calculated that the extra weight of a standard 110 and 130 calls for a bodge job, when a fully laden 90 overlaps the 110 and 130 kerb weight. Practice has shown that even 90 axles have parted with their hub. A few reported on this forum too. Most seem to have had a few warning signs before failure. I do not know if there were explosive catastrophic failures. Since my 90 is a June 2012, I think better have the brackets on the axles. Better not gamble. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Oct 2021 7:18pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353
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Sensible, I have them fitted to my '07 for peace of mind.
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9th Oct 2021 7:31pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410
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07 should be friction welded. There was a thread, showing an 2010 axle, which was still friction welded.
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post774373.html Friction welded do not have an issue, but if the brackets give you peace of mind, then why not 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Oct 2021 8:04pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353
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Yes, I believe mine is friction welded, but I wasn't aware until your post that FW don't have the problem whilst only MW do. This was why I asked the source of your intel.
I was under the impression that some of the reported failures were FW axles, but I could well be wrong. |
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9th Oct 2021 10:11pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410
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Indeed Blackwolf, from all searches I have done, I could not see that there were FW axles on Puma that failed. Also based on the pictures and information on the link to thread I pasted in my previous comment, and the comment by JST above, I conclude that the change from FW to MW was around 2010.
JLR recalled 2011 and 2012, so there must be some affected Defenders that were not recalled from 2010, and perhaps a few more from 2012. I am yet to find failures from 2013. So my conclusion is that all vehicles pre and including MY09 have good same quality axle, irrespective if it is a Puma, Td5, Tdi or whatever. 2010 is a bit sketchy. But owners should be able, or ask for help to determine if their axle is FW or MW. If it is MW, brackets SHOULD be fitted. I could not find reports of failure from 2013, so I am assuming that JLR had by then recognized the problem and improved the welding process. I fully understand the difference between FW and MW, the former, due to the high pressure nature of the process is generally free from defects like inclusions, porosity etc, I know which axle I prefer. It is sad, and on the verge of arrogance, the way JLR have handled this issue, especially in respect of 90 owners which got the same defective axles as 110 and 130s. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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10th Oct 2021 3:53am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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I had the recall done on my 2011 110, was never very happy with the brackets as a way of making the end fall off the axle less badly.
When I broke my front diff last year I took the opportunity to buy a replacement 2014 axle. So if anyone wants the parts from the 2011 axle... |
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30th Oct 2021 11:37am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410
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^^ Did you reinstate the brackets on the 2014 axle?
2014 is okayish as to quality. Seems like the brackets are not that available anymore. What I could find reasonably priced on ebay was only for left side. None for right side. I am now thinking that for the price of the brackets I could possibly find a friction welded axle tube.. must be for the wide radius arms and 16mm panhard rod though. So that means post 2002 axles up to early 2010. range of 8 years, I hope it is not mission impossible. If the above fails, then wider radius arm bushes start from 1994 and then weld on panhard brackets from later axles such as https://yrmit.co.uk/product/lhs-front-axle-panhard-2-2/ and https://yrmit.co.uk/product/lhs-front-axle-panhard-2/ 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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31st Oct 2021 2:36am |
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| Gasket Member Since: 30 May 2020 Location: Manchester Posts: 629 |
Hi Dinnu.
There are two left hand brackets on eBay right now in the U.K. and one right hand bracket in Germany: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-OE-Land...634-2357-0 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Land-Ro...635-2958-0 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Land-Ro...635-2958-0 My 90 is a 2010 MY and, while I don’t know if it was MW or FW, I didn’t want to take the chance so have fitted the brackets to mine. I got the brackets off eBay and found like you that the right hand side was hard to find: I think I paid about £22 for the left and £40 for the right. |
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31st Oct 2021 11:00am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410
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Thank you Gasket.
All my searches did not give me any results for right bracket. I think search was for UK only.... Approx cost of 2 brackets shipped to my home is €130. I am anticipating that a complete 2nd hand axle would be around €300-€350. A 24 spline diff is now fetching €140. So for a little more, I think better get a proper axle case, and have the guts as spare 
Since I am travelling, I have already asked family member to try source me an axle. Thanks a lot. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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31st Oct 2021 12:05pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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No, I didn't. They're still on the old axle sat in a corner. Didn't seem much point, maybe I'm wrong but the reason for going with a newer axle was to get a 4 pin diff outside the period for the recall. Given I'd already managed to break a diff I didn't want to move to an older one with the 2 pin. |
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5th Nov 2021 4:50pm |
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