 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Who is going to buy it? |
 
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| Ryderoo Member Since: 28 Aug 2015 Location: South Oxfordshire Posts: 1666   
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Where does £50k come from?[/quote] I read it in a motoring journal  Click image to enlarge Cheers Simon I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you 1990 110 TD5 county, my first Land Rover - gone 2012 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2014 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2015 Evoque SD4 dynamic - Wife’s - gone 2015 Urban Truck 90 XS Santorini Black Hard Top - Reluctantly gone 2020 Discovery 5 Eiger Grey 3.0 SE - gone March 24 2021 Defender S D250 Santorini Black 110 HT - gone March 24 2023 Evoque P300e SE wife’s current vehicle |
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14th May 2021 6:14pm |
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| Ryderoo Member Since: 28 Aug 2015 Location: South Oxfordshire Posts: 1666
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[quote="Supacat"]
It's been repeatedly reported that it's launch edition will be a station wagon, so I'm not sure what insight you are sharing with us there? Staying on point with OP on who may buy this vehicle. Probably not commercial/utility companies. The title was “Who is going to buy it” Cheers Simon I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you 1990 110 TD5 county, my first Land Rover - gone 2012 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2014 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2015 Evoque SD4 dynamic - Wife’s - gone 2015 Urban Truck 90 XS Santorini Black Hard Top - Reluctantly gone 2020 Discovery 5 Eiger Grey 3.0 SE - gone March 24 2021 Defender S D250 Santorini Black 110 HT - gone March 24 2023 Evoque P300e SE wife’s current vehicle |
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14th May 2021 6:19pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4209  
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It’s difficult to navigate BMW’s website, but I think the cheapest model they do with same engine and gearbox as the Grenadier is about £50k. It’s hard to imagine Ineos being able to undercut that by much. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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14th May 2021 6:25pm |
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| boxoftricks Member Since: 06 Feb 2019 Location: Home Counties Posts: 747 
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Well, I £50k is going to price out 90% of the potential market, unfortunately IMHO. It's a lot of money for a utility vehicle. The problem they face is that car manufactures make all their money on servicing, parts etc. That model works if you have volume, with such low forecasted sales I think they are unfortunately headed in one direction. Then owners are left with a vehicle that's bloody expensive to keep on the road as scarce spare parts.
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14th May 2021 6:26pm |
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| Ryderoo Member Since: 28 Aug 2015 Location: South Oxfordshire Posts: 1666
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On what basis do you present that gem? This little gem is only touching the tip of the iceberg! It’s based on my ownership of Defenders and what I have seen of the Grenadier. Cheers Simon I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you 1990 110 TD5 county, my first Land Rover - gone 2012 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2014 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2015 Evoque SD4 dynamic - Wife’s - gone 2015 Urban Truck 90 XS Santorini Black Hard Top - Reluctantly gone 2020 Discovery 5 Eiger Grey 3.0 SE - gone March 24 2021 Defender S D250 Santorini Black 110 HT - gone March 24 2023 Evoque P300e SE wife’s current vehicle |
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14th May 2021 6:27pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Autocar reported a few months ago that 17,000 had 'registered an interest' with Ineos predicting sales of 25,000 annually. I think sales of 2,100 a month is optimistic, especially with a price tag of £50,000. Having said that, I didn't think the Defender would sell as well as it has, in the past month, especially. Now left. |
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14th May 2021 6:38pm |
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| Ryderoo Member Since: 28 Aug 2015 Location: South Oxfordshire Posts: 1666
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Can they build 2000 a month Cheers Simon
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you 1990 110 TD5 county, my first Land Rover - gone 2012 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2014 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2015 Evoque SD4 dynamic - Wife’s - gone 2015 Urban Truck 90 XS Santorini Black Hard Top - Reluctantly gone 2020 Discovery 5 Eiger Grey 3.0 SE - gone March 24 2021 Defender S D250 Santorini Black 110 HT - gone March 24 2023 Evoque P300e SE wife’s current vehicle |
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14th May 2021 6:43pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Good point, it's a production of 77 a day on a 6-day week. I wouldn't be shocked if the Grenadier gets pulled from production due to a number of issues, but we'll see, of course. As I said some months back, not building it in the UK was a big point for me, personally, and the styling another minus point. If I wanted a £50,000 mud plugger, it would have to be a Wrangler Rubicon. I have been continually informed that Jim knows what he's doing. I wonder...I thought James Dyson did, too. Now left.
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14th May 2021 6:49pm |
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| boxoftricks Member Since: 06 Feb 2019 Location: Home Counties Posts: 747
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In that automated Merc factory, not a problem i'd have thought |
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14th May 2021 6:57pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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If globally that market is for 250,000 vehicles, then 10% works just fine.
Isn't it dealers who make money on servicing?
As JLR are finding out to their huge cost, chasing volume is not the answer to how to make money in the car business. If the business is right sized then low volume can be a perfectly sensible model. |
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15th May 2021 5:43am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Since going on sale in the UK, new registrations for the Defender have averaged 303 per month, including all dealer demo stock, pre-registered cars, experience vehicles and management cars. That's a long way from selling well, even further away from JLR's forecasts. |
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15th May 2021 6:01am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816  
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I think it's also worth remembering that most business models don't assume 'break even' until Yr 3 and any 'tidy profit' (if it comes) some time after that. So chat about what will be achieved immediately is somewhat missing the point. No doubt the business plan has been calculated in years with any profit not expected for some time. Investment has been huge, especially when looking at the agreement with Merc on the factory, so the idea it will be pulled anytime soon I don't think makes sense.
As a comparison, if we look at just the Defender model, four years of development and (its percentage share) of the investment into the new factory in Slovakia, I wonder how long before JLR expect that model to break even, even with sky high prices and far higher targets for global sales. The Grenadier might be 'niche' but with over 200m new SUVs sold annually, I'd think they'd manage to pinch 0.01% of them. What's more, 50k might be beyond the reach of your average joe, but if you look at how many combined sales Twisted, Bowler, Nene, JE, Urban plus LR special Editions (Heritage, Autobiography, Adventure, V8 etc) achieve in the UK alone, and for prices easily matching if not exceeding 50k, surely they will shift 2k per month? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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15th May 2021 6:04am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816
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Supacat, still waiting for a year on year extrapolation to see how many New Def sales are all new to JLR and how many are actually poached from (mainly) the Disco. It would also be interesting to know how many sales are to old Defender owners (if this forum is anything to go by I'd say tiny numbers) as this number may offer an insight - before factoring in cost - into a potential, viable and reachable market. Many current owners of 'classic' Defenders have been hugely disappointed by the new Def and JLR's vision for it, yet will at some point need a replacement for their current vehicle. Like for like, the Grenadier is almost the only 'new' option available across the marketplace. A choice of one. Only then does economics come into it. For some that might be too much to bare, for other they may need to accept the price hike over the equivalent, at the time new 110SW, which probably retailed at around £35k, poverty spec aside. When you look at it that way, and remeber the quality of engineering by Steyr going into the new Grenadier, many may not see the extra shekels as too prohibitive and will bite the bullet? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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15th May 2021 6:17am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Who knows if he really knows what he is doing, reading his biography it's obvious he is a gambler, and his route to success has had failures on the way. This may turn out to be one of them, or he may loose interest and just walk away. If the project relies too heavily on him to drive it forward, what happens if he takes ill, or worse? These would be my main concerns at the moment, closely followed by fuel choice and whether a hydrogen version will come to fruition and whether it will gain enough traction to attain critical mass. - basically an infrastructure choice. With regard to Dyson, his failure is interesting but he was competing against legacy car makers in a new market area, and doing OK until the major players woke up to the way Tesla was driving the market and are now flooding in with subsidised models. It was a hard cash reality for him. The Grenadier is doing the opposite to Dyson, in that it is moving into a space vacated by almost all the major players ~ it's a play/business model that Ineos have made their own in many other areas. Not forgetting that Ineos are actually now involved in vehicle production at their plant, producing vehicles and parts/major assemblies under contract. Walking away would be a far more complicated affair than it was for Dyson. I don't get the dislike for someone/something that is going to expand choice for the consumer rather than just compete with a yet another near identical product. |
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15th May 2021 6:40am |
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